FAQ: why would I need another beaming repeater if my zwave lock is already close to my hub?

project_locks

#1

This question comes up a lot. Suppose you have a Z wave lock, but the status doesn’t seem to update or commands don’t always seem to work. Typically someone in the community will recommend that you add another beaming repeater within 10 feet or so of the lock. So the question is why would you need that if the lock is already pretty close to the hub?

The short answer is that the hub is busy, and it takes some load off of it if you have a separate beaming repeater near your lock.

The long answer is in the following thread (this is a clickable link)

@rboy


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(www.rboyapps.com - Make your home your butler!) #2

Absolutely right JD. This question is the number 1 question we get from users in many different forms.
I’ll outline the most common symptoms folks experience when using locks:

  1. My lock is 10ft from my hub
    • I can lock/unlock using my mobile app but my codes aren’t being programmed
    • Some of my codes are being programmed while others aren’t
    • My codes are being programmed but I’m not getting notifications/actions aren’t being executed when the codes are used
    • It works in the mornings but not in the evenings
    • It was working till recently and now it’s having trouble
  2. I moved my lock closer/next to my hub but I’m still having issues
  3. One of my locks is working perfectly, the other one (closer to the hub) is having trouble locking/unlocking/programming codes

Adding a repeater (atleast 1, Z-Wave limits 4 hops per message so while you can have more than 4 repeaters the message will traverse only 4 hops, so make sure that you lock is no further than 4 hops away from the hub), followed up a Z-Wave repair, resolves these issues.
The Monoprice 11995 and 27481 seem to do well with Locks as repeaters. We recommend the 11995/27481 if you have older ZWave Locks and the 27481 if you have newer zwave plus locks.

Another very common misconception is that all devices are repeaters:

  1. I have lots of Z-Wave devices near my lock, shouldn’t that work as a repeater:
    • Battery operated devices do NOT act as repeaters.
    • Most AC/Mains powered devices are repeaters, in general you’re safe with a Z-Wave Plus mains powered device or a ZigBee mains powered device to act as repeaters (excepts bulbs which don’t act as repeaters)

A hub alone doesn’t make for a good quality/reliable mesh and locks are beaming devices and often very slow to respond to messages (varies by brand). This puts an bigger load on hub/mesh and having repeaters makes a huge difference.

A general rule of thumb to troubleshoot when using locks:

  • Add a repeater within about 20-30ft of the lock (Z-Wave/ZigBee also benefits)
  • Reboot/power cycle the hub
  • Do a Z-Wave repair (if you have a Z-Wave lock)
  • Reboot your router

Sometimes when things are running “slow” even with a repeater, it may have to do with the latency of the internet/mesh. Rebooting the hub and the router go a long way in improving the latency and subsequently you’ll also see a more “responsive” lock.

When there are a lot of Z-Wave devices in the mesh, that too can cause issues sometimes. The hub / mesh aren’t perfect and the mesh tends to degrade over time (from orphaned devices to routing issues). SmartThing, at one point, was looking to detect a degraded mesh and automatically do a Z-Wave repair. Until that feature is deployed it’s advisable to reboot the hub and do a Z-Wave repair when things begin to slow down or have trouble.


ST hub sending commands but Yale Assure SL Lock unresponsive
(Mark Poole) #3

@RBoy can you verify which of any of these MonoPrice plugs will serve as beaming repeaters for locks? I can’t get a clear answer on this from what I read. Model #s 11995, 15654, 27481


#4

You can check the beaming status for most zwave products at the z wave alliance site. Just look on the conformance statement for the specific model.

https://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/1117/embedpics


(Mark Poole) #5

Here’s where the confusion happens. This is from a user question about the 15654. With this question on the 15654 it puts both of those others in question and at the same time I could not find the 11195 or the 27481 in the Z-Wave Plus database.


(Kirk Hilzinger) #6

I, personally, am having a bear of a time with my detached garage and I have a Z-Wave lock on it, which says it has my codes but when I try it, they do not work.

I have two Iris 3210 plugs in my backyard. One on the house, then another outside on the detached garage that I was hoping would serve as a great repeating network and that is about 4 feet from the lock. The Z-Wave light switch and locks give me grief. They work for a little bit and then…nothing. The garage door opener and Z-Wave open/close sensor work fine and I would think the Go Control Z-Wave garage door opener would be a great repeater for those devices since it is on mains and works like a champ…nope.

Getting ready to take the lock off my door and let it sit in the house for a little bit to see if it can finally get all the programming. I get no errors in the log as far as codes, but the alarm portion screams bloody murder every time the hub sends a change. I even tried a factory reset…that may have screwed things up for me. I have been trying to find out where @RBoy had a recommendation on that.

Hoping someone, eventually, will develop a repeater over Cat-5 or even Ethernet. Hell, at this point, I would take coax, two wire, carrier pigeon, anything for these detached buildings, which I am sure is a good market. I cannot stick another hub in there or I would. The environmentals are too extreme between heat and cold.


(Mark Poole) #7

When I pair z-wave locks and physical switches I use a 50’ long piece of Cat 6 cable with the ST hub to get the hub as close as possible for pairing. That solved the issue where item either would not pair at all or only partially.

@JDRoberts is it enough for a zwave repeater to Support Z-wave Beaming or does a device also need to support AES Security if it’s going to repeat for a lock?


(Kirk Hilzinger) #8

Good call! Interested in finding that out…I may have two Iris outlets for sale, soon!


(www.rboyapps.com - Make your home your butler!) #9

There are subtitle differences between each device and consequently how they will behave on the mesh.

The 11995 is a zwave device and conforms to the Routing Slave specifications and is based on the 4.54 development kit which supports Beaming. (Random Note: Beaming (FliRS) was supported starting 5.02 kit with the Series 200/300 chipset however the 4.5x kit was released after 5.x so it does support Beaming, however older kits such as 4.3 dont support Beaming).

The 15654 is a Zwave plus device conforming to an Enhanced 232 Slave (which is like a routing slave but can support a routing table of upto 231 devices vs 4 devices for a routing slave). It is based on the 6.51.07 kit and it supports Beaming.

The 27481 is a Zwave plus device conforming to an Enhnaced 232 Slave. It is based on the 6.51.08 kit and supports Beaming.

Having said that each implementation differs slightly based on how the developer implements it. So if Monoprice is saying that the 15654 doesn’t support Locks there may be something to it even through the device is certified as a Beaming repeater. We have also seen that the 15654 doesn’t work great with locks here in our labs. (Random Note: FliRS or beaming devices like Locks partially wake up between 4 times to once every second. The frequency depends on the lock developer. The beaming device needs to be able to match that frequency and hold / buffer messages until the lock is ready to receive them. ZigBee on the other hand doesnt have a FLIRS mode but a rather more complex timing mechanism it which makes it more expensive for Locks. Locks based on the latest 500 series zwave plus chipset if designed properly can last upto one year on a set of batteries)

The IRIS 3210-L plugs is an Enhanced 232 Routine Slave based on the 6.51.06 kit and supports beaming. However it is NOT suited to working with locks. The implementation of the zwave repeater functionality on this lock is very poor and does not work well even as a normal repeater. You can search the forum for the many issues reported by people. We weren’t able to get this device to work reliably in our labs. It is a good ZigBee repeater by the Zwave repeater functionality is impaired for some reason.

RECOMMENDATION: The Monoprice 11995 and 27481 seem to do well with Locks. We recommend the 11995/27481 if you have older ZWave Locks and the 27481 if you have newer zwave plus locks.

Hope this helps.


(Kirk Hilzinger) #10

Not to hijack this thread but one quick question:

Since in my particular instances, I am dealing with outdoor repeaters between the two buildings, would something like the GE/Jasco Z-Wave Plus Outdoor Outlet or the Inovelli work with locks?


(Jimmy) #11

And people wonder why some folks pay big $$$ for Control 4 :slight_smile: Let someone else sort out this mess.


(Mark Poole) #12

@RBoy Can we tell by looking at anything in Smartthings if a repeater is doing the repeating for a lock?