Zwave lock problems all of a sudden

Ok first, I did read the faq but perhaps I didn’t fully absorb it. I’ll read it again. Second, trying the new hub was only a quick and dirty check to see if maybe somehow my v2 hub had gone bad. I literally just set up the new hub and only added one device, one of the locks. Since it behaved pretty much the same as it did when connected to the v2 hub, I concluded that the hub isn’t the issue. Sorry about forgetting that the distance didn’t matter and making the silly comment about it also not working when I moved it closer. I plead a case of age-related CRS (can’t remember s**t).

Thank you for your patience with me. You’ve exhibited nothing but grace and kindness. I am humbled by that, especially considering your difficult circumstances.

Anyway I am in the process of one last re-do. I’ve excluded both locks and both plugs from the hub and am adding them back one by one, the plugs first and then the locks.

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Funny. Actually I did have a look at the Schlage offerings this morning should worse come to worse. Since I have you here, can you tell me the Schlage equivalent of the Kwikset 912 and 914? Also, can you re-key the Schlage locks the way you can with Kwikset?

Did you search your mesh for any ghost devices or unresponsive devices?

I don’t know what that means or how to go about it if I did. Thanks for chiming in. I was a user of your RBoy apps back in the day. Great stuff.

The two locks (and now the two plugs) are literally my only zwave devices, if that helps.

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Oh, one perhaps silly question, would your answer about wifi change if the new wifi router had integrated Zigbee? It’s an eero pro 6 mesh and has Zigbee built in, although I am not using it.

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I’ve never seen any zwave-related error messages in the logs but will read through that wiki. My hub is on firmware 000.040.00006, so perhaps it has been taking care of it. I don’t know why I would have any unknown devices though, as I said, the two locks (and now plugs) are the only zwave devices that have ever been connected to it.

Fingers crossed that at least the lock which is quite close to one of the plugs will show improvement.

As far as the frustration, I think we all feel that at some point with smartthings. The app is very pleasant looking when seen on a 20 foot screen at a tech show. But it lacks a lot of informational features that you would expect for a modern zwave controller. Smartthings (even before the Samsung acquisition) made the decision that ordinary consumers wouldn’t be interested in all that tech stuff, Which would be fine if everything worked all the time, but it doesn’t. :rage:

This is what a standard Zwave routing table looks like:

image

Wherever there’s a blue square, that means that those two nodes have a direct route to each other. Where there’s a red square, they don’t. The white square is just the intersection of a node with itself, so not applicable.

I don’t know why smartthings doesn’t give us one, but they just don’t. They’ve had a design philosophy from the very beginning that people would be confused if there were features available for zwave devices that were not available for Zigbee devices. So they just hide everything. :thinking:

Which again, would be fine if everything worked all the time, but since it doesn’t, I’d rather have the information.

There’s also the whole issue of the cloud layer which smart things ads and which can obscure information unintentionally.

When you press unlock in the app, that action first takes place in the cloud.

If there’s some kind of breakdown in your local Network, the cloud status may be different from the reality on the ground. What the app is really showing you is “stuff that the cloud thinks has happened.” Whether it actually happened or not. That’s why the app by itself can be really frustrating as a troubleshooting tool.

Here’s one example which probably isn’t happening at your house because the locks did used to work, but I just use it as an example.

Human bodies can block radio signals. It’s pretty common that you would stand in one place to manually unlock the door but might be standing in a different place when using the app. So it’s not impossible that signal is being blocked in one of those two situations and not the other.

Anyway, none of those details really matter for your particular situation, but I just wanted to emphasize that we would all feel a lot less frustrated if we had normal Z wave diagnostic tools. As it is, we just have to do the best we can.

So I followed the instructions for How To Identify All Ghost Devices. I ran the zwave repair. Contrary to the wiki, which said the repair should take 5 to 30 minutes, it completed in 6 seconds and there were no errors or anything at all. As I said my zwave configuration is very small. Only the two plugs are connected at the moment. I haven’t yet added the two locks back. But even when all four devices are connected, a repair completes almost instantly and I’ve never seen any errors. Does any of that make sense?

Good question, but the same answer.

Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, thread, and global Zigbee (The one that smartthings uses and your router is almost certainly using) all operate at 2.4 GHz.

Zwave in the United States operates at 906.8 MHz.

Those two frequencies are very far apart, so no interference. That’s the main reason, I believe, that Zwave became so popular for fixed point devices like light switches and locks. Even if you boosted Wi-Fi in that area, it wouldn’t interfere with the zwave lock.

Thanks, I thought so, but I just had to check.

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Bob,

The Schlage equivalent is the Connect deadbolt:
https://www.schlage.com/en/home/smart-locks/connect-zwave.html

Unfortunately we don’t have Smart Key, quick way to rekey, we used to but their was a lawsuit from that other lock company many years ago. The deadbolts are easy to rekey but you would need a pinning kit. Honestly I never rekeyed mine. I have multiple entrances into the house in case batteries would die or one would quit working I can always use another entrance. I do monitor battery life, plus the deadbolt will inform you when batteries are getting low. I’ve been using these for 7.5 yrs at home and I’ve not had any issues. Granted I do have many wired light switches throughout the house that act as repeaters.

Hope this helps.

Michael

Yes, the local state is getting out of sync with the cloud for sure. The issue for me is I have routines created with the Smartthings app, to lock the door if the door is closed and the lock has been unlocked for more than 15 minutes. That’s how I noticed I had a problem. I’d unlock a door and go outside, fully expecting that if I didn’t come back for more than 15 minutes that when I came back the door would be locked, except frequently it wasn’t. That’s ultimately what I am trying to solve.

My guess is that the routines use the cloud-based status for their decision making and the fact that the local status differs from the cloud is why the routines aren’t kicking in (i.e. the cloud still thinks the lock is locked when in fact it was manually unlocked).

I agree there is some kind of breakdown in my local network that must be at the root of things. I think this can all be solved if I can figure out what that breakdown is and how to solve it.

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Ah! This could be quite a different problem than just saying that “manual unlocking of the door is not recognized.”

When you manually unlock the door, does it show as unlocked in the app within a minute or so?

If so (and I’m guessing it will), then my guess would be that the problem is in the routine, where smartthings has been doing a lot of behind-the-scenes work recently and a lot of things have been changing and sometimes breaking. Timers included.

In other words, I’m guessing that the issue isn’t that the local state and the cloud state are out of sync, but rather that the duration condition in the routine isn’t working.

Can you post the screenshots of the routines that are not working? And then maybe @jkp or @Automated_House or one of the other people who are very up-to-date and experienced with using the built-in rules engine in the app will see something that might be creating the issue you are seeing.

OTOH I see another user just posted that they are having problems getting the status from kwikset locks and that this is also a recent change for them, so maybe it does have something to do with the lock state. Or maybe in your case it’s both. :scream:

Man, I wish we had better diagnostic tools. :thinking:

The routine is simplicity itself. I used to use webcore for this but when it stopped working recently I uninstalled all the webcore stuff and switched to the in-app routine functionality since it seemed to have evolved enough that it could handle at least this very simple case, which is all I really need.

Oh, and 15 minutes ago I manually locked my front door lock but the in-app status is still showing it is unlocked, as-is the ide. Also, I manually unlocked my garage door lock, but the in-app and ide status is still showing locked. If I hit the lock/unlock button in the app for the front door lock, the status correctly gets updated to locked. If I do the same for the garage door, the status correctly gets updated to unlocked and both are back in sync.

Here’s the routine

Bob - Just found your thread… I posted the exact same problem an hour ago and someone pointed me to yours. Kwikset lock has been working fine for years and suddenly lock/unlock status reporting is inconsistent. Will be watching this thread…

Kwikset z-wave lock not reporting locked/unlocked status consistently - Devices & Integrations - SmartThings Community

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Honestly I really think something broke in SmartThings recently wrt correctly detecting and/or reporting of zwave events (maybe only from battery powered devices since the Minoston outlets seem to be behaving just fine). I’ve still got a ticket open with support but it’s still in the early information gathering stage. If that follows the typical pattern its going to take weeks to get to come to the level of understanding we’ve gotten to here in this thread, so I don’t have much hope it will get me anywhere.

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Maybe also try opening a ticket with support. One report perhaps they can ignore, but two in a short interval, maybe it will make someone suspicious. It should, anyway. Of course 100 would be better :wink:

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Good point… just submitted a ticket. I agree, it seems like something changed with ST where it’s not picking up status changes correctly. I’ve made no changes to my ST/Z-Wave environment recently. Seems strange the lock would stop working after being rock solid for years.

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I wouldn’t troubleshoot anything until the current outage is cleared
https://status.smartthings.com/

Are you getting any response? I haven’t heard anything back from support since late last week. The problem persists and has not improved at all since I added the Minoston plugs.