Changing Z-Wave Route

[lflorack (Lee Florack)]

I think I know the answer to this, but this is driving me crazy(er?)

Along with the current Firmware update that’s wreaking havoc with my Z-Wave stuff in general (as well as my SmartThings motion sensor in particular), I have a specific issue that I’d like help with.

I have a KwikSet 912 Z-Wave Door Lever/Lock that’s within 5-6 feet of the hub - although there are also at least (6) other Z-wave (mains) devices that are just as close or even closer. The 912 was purchased and installed in August 2016 and may need to be replaced soon. Increasingly, it seems to drop off the Z-Wave mesh (which generally seems to be fairly good) much more often since the recent firmware update. I’ve just been pulling the battery pack for a few seconds and then dropping it back in to kind of reboot it. Before I spend $$ to replace it, I’m waiting until that issue settles down to ensure i’m not buying a replacement lock for nothing.

For some reason, a large number of my z-Wave devices seem to always want to route through the KwikSet so when it drops off the Z-wave mesh. so do they. Is there a way to have the KwikSet not put itself in such a pivotal place in the net?

[JDRoberts]

Battery-operated Door locks are not repeaters, so that can’t be what’s going on.

(“Slave” Devices are not repeaters, and you can confirm the feature status at the official zwave alliance site:

https://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/2238/embedpics

)

It’s likely that you need to put a beaming repeater near the lock. The hub just isn’t very good at this particular function. The following FAQ should help (this is a clickable link)

FAQ: why would I need another beaming repeater if my zwave lock is already close to my hub?

This question comes up a lot. Suppose you have a Z wave lock, but the status doesn’t seem to update or commands don’t always seem to work. Typically someone in the community will recommend that you add another beaming repeater within 10 feet or so of the lock. So the question is why would you need that if the lock is already pretty close to the hub? The short answer is that the hub is busy, and it takes some load off of it if you have a separate beaming repeater near your lock. The long answer is in the following thread (this is a clickable link) @rboy

[lflorack (Lee Florack)]

Battery-operated Door locks are not repeaters, so that can’t be what’s going on.

OK. Makes sense… but…

Many times, this morning included, I woke to the Kwikset door lock being off the mesh - as well as 8-10 others. When I pulled the battery pack and dropped it back in, ALL of them immediately came back on the mesh too.

Since what you say is obviously true, might it be that the KwikSet Z-Wave module is going whacky and messing up the mesh (hehehe - messing up the mesh!)?

[JDRoberts]

Battery-operated Door locks are not repeaters, so that can’t be what’s going on.

OK. Makes sense… but…

Since what you say is obviously true, might it be that the KwikSet Z-Wave module is going whacky and messing up the mesh (hehehe - messing up the mesh!)?

Yes, that’s possible. Particularly if it’s flooding the mesh with Messages. That could prevent others from getting through.

Or it could be that whatever is causing the lock to drop off is also causing the others to drop off and any reconnect process is doing a partial reset and fixing the mesh that way.

[lflorack (Lee Florack)]

Since what you say is obviously true, might it be that the KwikSet Z-Wave module is going whacky and messing up the mesh (hehehe - messing up the mesh!)?

Yes, that’s possible. Particularly if it’s flooding the mesh with Messages. That could prevent others from getting through.

Or it could be that whatever is causing the lock to drop off is also causing the others to drop off and any reconnect process is doing a partial reset and fixing the mesh that way.

Well, #1 would mean I should replace the lock soom=ner than later. #2 says that I should wait out the current firmware crap storm to see what happens. Hmmm… I guess I’ll chose #2 because replacing a lock will be expensive.

Thanks JD.

[JDRoberts]

#1 might also just mean you need a beaming repeater close to the Lock. Again, see the FAQ.

[lflorack (Lee Florack)]

#1 might also just mean you need a beaming repeater close to the Lock. Again, see the FAQ.

The interesting thing is that although the lock has exhibited this issue sporadically prior to the recent firmware update, it’s gotten much worse since then.

Anyway, I rechecked and there are actually a total of (8) Z-Wave devices that are as close or closer to the hub than the lock:

(3) GE Z-Wave Plus Smart Lighting Control Light Dimmer (14294)
(1) GE Z-Wave Plus Smart Lighting Control Light Dimmer (12792)
(1) GE Z-Wave Wireless Smart Lighting Control Outdoor Module, On/Off (12720)
(2) GoControl Z-Wave Single Wall Outlet (WO15Z-1)
(1) Dome Water Shutoff/Valve (DMWV1)

Looking at the Raw Description in the IDE for each of them, it appears that all of them are ‘L’ or ‘Listening’ devices but not ‘F’ or ‘Beaming’ devices. If I read the FAQ correctly. Duncan said that, “All listening Z-Wave devices act as repeaters.” However, ‘Repeating’ doesn’t mean ‘Beaming’ I guess (?).

If that’s true, is there a list of Beaming devices somewhere?

[JDRoberts]

It’s not how close they are to the hub: it’s how close they are to the lock. They need to be within about 10 feet to be selected as the beaming repeater for that particular lock.

Beaming is an optional feature, so you just have to check the conformance statement for each model to see if it’s supported.

The 14294 supports beaming.

https://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/2105/embedpics

The 12720 does as well.

https://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/1194/embedpics

I don’t see a GE 12792. By any chance did you mean 12729? If so, that’s also supporting beaming.

https://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/1201/embedpics

[lflorack (Lee Florack)]

It’s not how close they are to the hub: it’s how close they are to the lock. They need to be within about 10 feet to be selected as the beaming repeater for that particular lock.

OK. Then the hub and lock and all of those (8) devices are within a 10 foot diameter circle and certainly closer than that for some of them. (2) of the 14294’s are with 1.5 feet.

Beaming is an optional feature, so you just have to check the conformance statement for each model to see if it’s supported.

The 14294 supports beaming.

https://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/2105/embedpics

The 12720 does as well.

https://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/1194/embedpics

I don’t see a GE 12792. By any chance did you mean 12729? If so, that’s also supporting beaming.

https://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/1201/embedpics

Yes, 12729. Sorry.
It appears that there are sufficient ‘beaming’ devices close by for that not to be the issue. So, It’s either the lock’s Z-Wave module going bad or the firmware issues - or both. I’m thinking it’s both.

My Amazon wish/shopping list has a replacement (Schlage Z-Wave Home Keypad Lever FE599NX) already lined up for Christmas!

[lflorack (Lee Florack)]

Update: After running for a few hours yesterday, about 10-12 of my Z-Wave devices were becoming disconnected from the mesh again. I pulled the battery pack and Home Connect Module from the lock and within a minute, all of the dropped devices reconnected.

As a last-ditch attempt to save the lock mechanism, I’ve placed an eBay order for a replacement Home Connect Module. If that doesn’t solve the issue or it again goes bad, I’ll be getting a different lock. From what i understand, this is not completely uncommon for the KwikSet 912 modules.

[vseven (Allan)]

I was going to suggest the same thing…you can usually get the Z-Wave modules for those locks for around $40. I’ve bought Kwikset 909 and 911 locks on a good sale then bought the module to Z-Wave enable it. I wish I could find the ZigBee version cheaper…rather have that (seem to have less problems with KwikSet ZigBee then Z-Wave).

[lflorack (Lee Florack)]

I was going to suggest the same thing…you can usually get the Z-Wave modules for those locks for around $40. I’ve bought Kwikset 909 and 911 locks on a good sale then bought the module to Z-Wave enable it. I wish I could find the ZigBee version cheaper…rather have that (seem to have less problems with KwikSet ZigBee then Z-Wave).

Yup. As of today, I bought it on eBay (here) for $37.47 with free shipping. It should be here by Thursday (1st). We’ll see how it goes.

[lflorack (Lee Florack)]

I wish I could find the ZigBee version cheaper…rather have that (seem to have less problems with KwikSet ZigBee then Z-Wave).

I found this “Kwikset Zigbee Home Connect Lock Module RF Chip Echo Plus Smartthings” on eBay:

Not as cheap as the Z-Wave at $37.47, but not too bad at $46.99.

[vseven (Allan)]

Dude! Thanks! Bought it.

I don’t know why I’ve had so much issues with the Z-Wave ones especially since I have 15+ GE switches throughout the house but I think it’s a pairing issue, it doesn’t seem you can pair them through other Z-wave devices and they have to connect directly to the hub. And I’m too lazy to unbolt it and bring it downstairs and rather pay $40.

[lflorack (Lee Florack)]

Dude! Thanks! Bought it.

I don’t know why I’ve had so much issues with the Z-Wave ones especially since I have 15+ GE switches throughout the house but I think it’s a pairing issue, it doesn’t seem you can pair them through other Z-wave devices and they have to connect directly to the hub. And I’m too lazy to unbolt it and bring it downstairs and rather pay $40.

You’re welcome.

If I have an issue with the new Z-Wave replacement module that should arrive this week, I’ll think about getting the Zigbee version too.

[vseven (Allan)]

If it doesn’t work try moving it next to the hub:

Z-Wave Secure Join Failures and Other Misadventures

The zwave specification allows for what is called “whisper distance” for the initial exchange of the encryption key with a security device. It’s up to each manufacturer to implement this for their specific devices, but I think for almost all of them 5 feet would be treated very differently than 2 feet. That’s an intentional security measure. A number of people have reported That the Schlage locks treat whisper distance a little bit differently than Yale and Kwikset. If you attempt to pair a Yale lock outside of its whisper distance, The join will fail all together and you won’t see the lock on your network. If you attempt to pair a Schlage lock outside of its whisper distance, The secure join will fail but sometimes the lock will go ahead and pair insecurely which leads to the real…

Or be lazy like me and get the ZigBee module.

[lflorack (Lee Florack)]

My lock is easily within 10 feet of the hub. Probably 6-7 feet.
After increasingly fighting with the Z-Wave module over the last few months and running various tests, I’m convinced I have a faulty ‘Home Connect’ module. At first, it wasn’t a matter of reconnecting after it dropped off the mesh. It always connected right back up. The frequency of drops then started increasing. Recently, it’s also flooding the mesh and causing other Z-wave devices to be unable to communicate. Eventually it makes them drop too. If I remove the module, the other devices reconnect. In the last few days, the lock’s ‘Home Connect’ module doesn’t always connect right away either. In several recent instances, once it connects to the mesh, it almost always makes the mesh collapse. Sometimes over a few hours, sometimes almost immediately. So, as of yesterday afternoon, I’ve removed the module and am living with using a mechanical key until the new module arrives.

I hope I’ll just be able to run a ‘replace’ rather than have to do a ‘remove’ and ‘add new’ procedures.

[lflorack (Lee Florack)]

Update: The replacement module showed up a day early and it’s installed and running now. I actually had to move the hub even closer than the normal 6-7 feet to get the old one to exclude and the new one to add properly. But, with that out of the way, I then updated my webCoRE pistons, Alexa stuff, etc to get everything smoothed back out. Right now, all is well without the mesh destabilization, etc I had before. We’ll just have to see how well the new module stays in the mesh.

[lflorack (Lee Florack)]

Update: The replacement module showed up a day early and it’s installed and running now. I actually had to move the hub even closer than the normal 6-7 feet to get the old one to exclude and the new one to add properly. But, with that out of the way, I then updated my webCoRE pistons, Alexa stuff, etc to get everything smoothed back out. Right now, all is well without the mesh destabilization, etc I had before. We’ll just have to see how well the new module stays in the mesh.

2nd Update: Everything is still OK - better even. So, why am I posting. I have an interesting twist to this story to share.

When my Kwikset 912’s original Z-Wave Home Connect Module started to failing, I added the lock to a webCoRE piston that runs a ‘refresh’ command every 20 minutes on selected devices. My thinking was that if I kicked the lock in the butt periodically, it might stop falling off the mesh. I knew that doing this might shorten the battery life but I was willing to trade that off if it meant keeping the lock on the mesh. I think it may have worked for a while but it’s hard to tell.

Fast forward to a couple of days ago when I finally replaced the original Z-Wave board. The new board was immediately more stable, staying on the network and not bringing the mesh down. However, about 5 hours in, the mesh started crumbling again with 5-10 devices falling off before I saw it. I hoped it was the new board settling in and I pulled it, put it back and ran a Z-Wave repair again. All was well for 19 hours - when it happened again! I then (for some unknown reason) remembered that I was running the refresh piston against the lock and decided to remove the lock from that refresh piston. After pulling the board, putting it back in place and running yet another Z-Wave repair, everything has now run for about 39 hours without issue. I know it’s still early, but I my issues seem to be gone!

I had a bad board and replaced it. Makes sense. But, if my admittedly small sample size of data is true, why wouldn’t the Z-Wave connect home module like to be refreshed - so much so that it messes the mesh up?

[professordave (DavidK)]

I would assume that a schedule of 20 minutes, should have no effect, including no effect on battery.

If you stated that you set refresh every second or so that would affect battery life!!

SmartThings periodically pings devices.