FAQ: Solution for Linear/GoControl 3-way switches? (WD500Z-1 and WT00Z-1) (Association options)


(Scott Mac Leod) #1

had great success with Linear’s WD500Z-1 Wall-Mount Dimmer’s, so I needed to convert a two way switch installation in the kitchen. Took a WD500Z and bought a WT00Z-1 Accessory Switch to go with it for the two-way install. Got them in, and now ST support is saying that the association, that is the only way to “pair” them can’t be done in the ST hub.

Anyone else run into this before? Is there a solution other than ripping it all out?


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#2

It’s correct that it can’t be done with the hub, but you don’t need to. (@tyler , sounds like support needs some education in this.)

Method 1: virtual three way with smartlights

First, smartthings is a multi protocol platform. You can set up a virtual three-way, which is the end goal of association for these two particular switches, with any two devices in smart things. It could be one zigbee device and 1Z wave device. It could be a WeMo outlet and a Z wave switch.

All you have to do is set up one switch to “follow” the other. This is very easy to do for on/off just using the regular smart lights feature.

So that’s easy and it’s an official feature. Support should absolutely have told you about that one, which is why I’ve tagged Tyler on this.

having one dimmer follow another in a virtual three-way

But the smart lights method can only give you on/off for the auxiliary. What if you want to use the dimming capability of the auxiliary? You need a way to have one dimmer follow the other for dimming as well as for on/off.

There are many different custom code solutions for this. One of the earliest was “dim and dimmer” and it’s still quite popular. But people have also improved on that overtime, and there are newer offerings with more features.

If you haven’t used custom code before, it’s pretty simple. You’re basically going to copy someone else’s code and paste it into your account. The following FAQ gives you the overview for that:

If after reading the overview, you think that something you would like to explore, you can use the quick browse list for lighting in the community – created wiki to see what’s available:

http://thingsthataresmart.wiki/index.php?title=How_to_Quick_Browse_the_Community-Created_SmartApps_Forum_Section

I don’t expect support to have told you about this option, but it’s one of the things the forum is for. :sunglasses: Controlling dimmers is a very popular use of custom code.

3. Use a minimote to create the association

The last option requires buying one additional device, but it is an officially supported device, and I would expect support to have told you about this option as well.

The minimote is a small handheld 4 button remote. It works great with smart things, and the buttons can be assigned to pretty much anything that smartthings can do, including changing the mode, running a routine, turning on a group that includes both zigbee bulbs and zwave switches, etc. and it can also perform some system functions, including setting up zwave associations.

Price varies a lot, but you can usually find it for about $25. And as I said, you don’t use it just for the system functions – – it also makes a very nice nightstand remote. So it’s very popular in the community. (As it happens, right at this very moment, the first week of August 2016, it happens that one retailer has it on sale for $15, which is the lowest price I’ve ever seen. Check the deals section of the forum for the coupon code if it hasn’t expired.

But even at $25, it’s a very useful device to own.)

Here are Linear’s instructions for Association using a minimote:

http://www.nortekcontrol.com/bulletins/TB2014-001.pdf

Method 4: use the zwave tweaker

As of 2017, A community member has created a very cool device type handler which you can use temporarily with any mains powered Z wave device, including the linear/go control switches. This will let you set up the associations. Then when you’re done, you just go back to using the original DTH. :sunglasses:

So there you are: four different methods. You definitely shouldn’t have to return the switches. :sunglasses:


Linking Linear WT00Z-1 Accessory Switch to WD500Z-1 Dimmer without using association?
Is there a way to set up a z-wave association between two devices?
#3

Finally…

There is a way to do real zwave association ( using the setassociation command set) just with SmartThings without using a minimote, but it’s pretty complicated and I’m actually not 100% sure that it still works with the V2 hub. @duncan wrote an “auxiliary switch” custom DTH that would allow you to do this.

I don’t expect support to have told you about this because of the complexity. And I’m not recommending this method because to be honest it’s just way easier to use a minimote. But I think it is still doable. @duncan can confirm.

So I’m really just putting this post here to document this additional method. I’m not recommending it for your particular situation.


Simple question: Is the minimote still required?
(Scott Mac Leod) #4

JD, got a Minimote so that’s the solution! Thanks so much for the detailed answer.


#5

Excellent, then follow the switch manufacturer’s instructions:

http://www.nortekcontrol.com/bulletins/TB2014-001.pdf

Note that the system function buttons on the minimote are inside the case, so you have to slide it open to get to them:

If you have the V2 minimote, the lower left button inside the case is marked “associate.”

If you have the V1 minimote, the lower left button inside the case is blank, but it still what you use for association. :sunglasses:

https://aeotec.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/6000035629-in-depth-minimote-guide


(Todd Whitehead) #6

@JDRoberts,

The minimote association talks about associating a slave switch with a load-baring switch. Is it possible to associate two load bearing switches using the minimote?

Thank you.


#7

Sorry, for some reason I didn’t see this question earlier. Not with this particular brand and model. The WD500 can only be on the receiving end of an association.


(Todd Whitehead) #8

Thanks, @JDRoberts.

Isn’t the WD500 the actual load-bearing switch that would be the sender of association, not the receiver?

Isn’t the Wt00z the receiver?

I’m asking if a WD500 can be associated with another WD500. I think you answered me (“no”) but just wanted to double-check.

Thanks!


#9

No, it’s the other way around. The WT00z is the add on switch, it acts as a remote control to the master and tells the master what to do. The master is the WD500. It controls the light the same way a non-network switch does, by changing the current sent. It doesn’t directly control the add on switch.

So a WD500 cannot control a different WD 500 in the same way because it doesn’t send a message through direct association.

That said, you could set up a virtual three-way using SmartThings so that one WD 500 follows another, because smartthings is deciding to send the command to the second WD 500 when the first WD 500 comes on. But in that case you would want to only have one of them actually controlling the load to the light. In which case why not just use the add on switch instead?

you’re going to have a problem if you try to have 2 WD 500s both set up to control the load on the same circuit . That’s probably not going to work.


(Todd Whitehead) #10

I wanted to tie two separate circuits together. Since the switches do not report immediately to the hub, there is a delay.


#11

Confirmed there is no way to associate two WD500Z.

I have similar setup, two WD500Z controls two different lights, and I want one follow another. Tried minimote and no luck.

Smart lights gives huge delay (about 6-10 seconds for the second one to follow). I wrote a SmartApp and found it is because the switch actually takes 1-2 seconds to “fade in/out” the lights, and then reports “on/off” event to the hub. In another word, you should observe the light is dimmed up when you press the pedal, instead of turning on instantly.

I also found the second WD500Z can bypass the dim-up by sending a “dim to 100%” command. But still, after counting the network delay, it takes about 4-6 seconds to follow.

BTW, I’m new to making SmartApp. It seems I cannot differentiate if the control is from the physical device or from a command. Because I’m listening to the “on/off” event, which is always issued by the switch, and is always marked as “from physical”


#12

From WD500Z user manual, it seems we can associate two WD500Z on either Group 2 or Group 3.

I tried to code a custom device handler and send ASSOCIATE_SET command from ST, but no luck.

Sending ASSOCIATE_GET doesn’t get any response back. Not sure the problem is on ST side or the switch side.

I’ve send an email to GoControl. Let’s wait for the response.


(DavidK) #13

@snailium
I would like to be able to group switches and have other options to control switches also, but I do not think it works this way.

I think the association group is something just stored in the controlling aux switch. The “controlee”, the load switches have no knowledge of what groups they may or may not be “in”

I think load bearing switches have no capabilities to wirelessly directly control other switches, only the aux switches can.

From my limited testing of aux switches, linear branded aux switches can wirelessly control any other brand of switch, but my testing consisted of one other brand, GE. So I have linear brand aux switches controlling ge load switches and dimmers.

My guess is a linear aux switch should be able to wireless directly control most other zwave switches.

I was able to wireless directly control GE switches also from the enerwave ceiling mounted motion sensor.

I only needed to do this when I had a V1 hub.

Once I went to the V2 hub, local processing of motion control, and open close events are so fast and reliable, I no longer needed to have the motion sensors directly control switches.

There was one problem with controlling things using direct association, handling “or” conditions, that are handled easily with SmartThings.

If you have 2 motion sensors controlling one switch, as soon as one motion sensor stops detecting motion, switch is turned off.


#14

Here is the paragraph from WD500Z User Manual.

Group 2
If you associate a Z-Wave device into Group 2, you can turn that
device on and off by tapping the top or bottom of the switch twice. You
can brighten or dim devices by tapping the top or bottom of the switch
once and then hold it down. The load attached to the WD500Z-1 is not
affected.

The term “that device” is definitely not meaning an aux switch. It doesn’t make sense to turn on/off an aux switch from a load switch, does it? Question is which categories “that device” means.

From the configuration section in the User Manual.

Enable Shade Control Group 2
The WD500Z-1 can control shade control devices via its group 2 if this
configuration parameter is set to 1.
• Parameter 14
• Length: 1 Byte
• Valid Values: 0 or 1 (default 0)

So we know at least “that device” includes Windows Covering category. I’m not sure if a dimmer module like PD300Z also qualify. The best case is “that device” can be another WD500Z.


(DavidK) #15

@snailium

If you can get the linear load bearing dimmer switch to directly wireless without any delay, control other zwave devices with a double and/or triple tap, let us know how.

That would be awesome!!!

One note, on the accessory switch, even though the manual states groups 2 and 3 are operated by double and triple tap, that is not how my accessory switch works.

It always sends commands to ALL groups, the groups are just separated by a few seconds.

So a single tap immediately controls all devices on group 1, several seconds go by and then devices in group 2 are controlled, and then so on etc to all groups.

The reason I mention this is that if you accidentally associate the target switch to a group other than group 1, which I inadvertently did more than once, the delay in responding to the command is the clue that the device is associated to a group greater than 1.

It seems once you setup group 1, you cannot add more devices to group 1 later. At least I did not figure it out using only a minimote.

You need to start over and associate all the devices you want to group 1 all at once.

Important: here is some more information.
Doing a google search found this thread:
http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=40627.0


#16

@codytruscott may be able to add more. The Linear documentation has been incorrect more than once on how their association features were implemented for different models. I know he talked to their support about it.


#17

@professordave

I researched several Z-wave libraries. It seems the association can never be done on WD500Z side, even if it really support multiple group.

The reason is WD500Z doesn’t support ASSOCIATION command class.

So the only hope is Nortek implements special key press pattern to make WD500Z enter “association” mode. But that magic pattern has never been found, discovered or confirmed by official.

So, if we want use one dimmer switch to control another, the only solution is to replace the master switch, at least the master switch should support ASSOCIATION command class. From Z-wave product library, the only solution is GE/Jasco 14321/ZW3005 (with similar look to WD500Z for appearance consistency).


(DavidK) #18

@snailium
That is a good catch!

However, reviewing the docs I am not sure that is what it means.

Notice that it states group 1, lifeline.

Googling zwave plus lifeline appears that this is a new zwave plus command for either asking a device to reboot or something or to do send unsolicited reports.

Compare that definition to the definition for the new ge plugin dimmer which explicitly shows controlling other devices.


#19

There are several brands of master switches that support association. Not sure what library you were checking, but it’s best to check the conformance statements on the official Z wave alliance website.

http://products.z-wavealliance.org


#20

@professordave

If I understand correct, Group 1 (Lifeline) is a “required” group. Every device should support it, even those ones doesn’t support association. Device sends all events on Group 1, for example, on/off, change of dimming level.

The ST dev docs stats (http://docs.smartthings.com/en/latest/device-type-developers-guide/z-wave-primer.html)

The SmartThings hub automatically adds itself to association group 1 when a device that supports association joins the network.

Per Z-wave plus requirement, Association command class and Association Group Information command class must be supported. But WD500Z is NOT Z-wave Plus.

Next question is, if Group 1 is good enough for us to build association. I’m not sure on this. It should depends on if the slave device can handle such “unsolicited reports”. To me, it is better to use other group because they have specific intention

BTW, the new dimmer just passed certification several days ago. So we should expect it sometime in 2017, not in a short time.

@JDRoberts

I did check the official product library as you stated.

Yes, all Z-wave plus dimmers support association. But most of them only support Group 1, because it is required. And as I stated above, I’m not sure if Group 1 is good enough for non Z-wave Plus device to handle those events.