With Groovy on its way out…

I’m kinda feeling (temporarily) stranded by SmartThings. With Groovy on its way out, and without a good understanding of what the “new” platform will look like, I’ve completely halted all new device purchases and I’m (slowly) moving away from WebCoRE and trying to become proficient with ST App Routines & Scenes. I’m trying to avoid spending money and spending time on things that will be useless in a short time. Is there a guideline or a “rule of thumb“ for what I can/cannot be doing? I’m still seeing posts from so many people who are purchasing devices that are powered by groovy handlers, and I feel so bad for these people. What to do??

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Be positive … things will work out :grin:

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I know they will. Many people are running to Hubitat and others. I’m holding tight w ST, but I need to do some device replacement and I have no idea what I can/can’t buy. Frustrating

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Z-Wave and Zigbee devices should transition smoothly. The list I’d use to be confident they’ll work is:

  • They work with a stock DTH (ST is transitioning those to Edge); or
  • The device manufacturer has committed to making them work with Edge (Inovelli and Zooz, for example); or
  • The person who wrote the custom DTH is still active and has indicated that they will rewrite the DTH as an Edge driver; or
  • An Edge driver has already been written by a community member.

There’s a chance that, even if they hit one of those bullets, the functionality will be different after the move.

LAN/Cloud connected devices are a different story. If the device uses an official integration, it should be fine. If the integration is community-developed, then I’d be concerned unless someone has indicated that they’re working on it.

Do you have any specific devices in mind? There are a lot that already work in the new platform.

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@philh30 , Thanks- very helpful post!

How can I tell what’s stock versus custom?

Nice, would that mean ALL Inovelli and Zooz products? Are there other manufacturers who’ve made that commitment?

Looking forward to digging thru that link- I didn’t know a list like that existed!

I just invested a boatload of money in Somfy window treatments. I assume they’ll be fine because ST specifically names Somfy on the “Works With SmartThings” page… but then again, I have no way of knowing if that’s up to date with the changes.

A stock DTH would be any that show up in the dropdown list of device types that you didn’t add. Custom DTHs are ones that aren’t in that list until you add them through the My Device Handlers tab in the Groovy IDE. The stock DTHs that I think are safest are in this folder, though until an Edge driver is posted we won’t know for certain.

Edge drivers already written/posted by ST staff are in this folder. You can drill down into the fingerprints.yml file of each one to see the specific devices that are intended to be supported. I wouldn’t take that list as exhaustive though - the drivers are being written such that they should support similar devices (though they may not expose unique features or configuration parameters of other devices).

Both of those companies have fantastic support and are active here in the community. I’m confident enough in them that I’ve bought products from each recently. They’ve each said that they’re working on drivers, though I don’t think either has provided a full list of what they’ll support. I think it’s safe to assume that they’ll support any device that they’re currently selling, but I might hesitate if you’re looking at an older device that’s being resold on a third party site. If you have a specific model number in mind, ask before ordering and you will probably a get more definitive answer as to whether it will be supported in Edge.

Someone else who’s more familiar with Somfy can probably answer this better, especially if you share the models of your devices. If yours communicate by zigbee then they might be the ones below that are already in the zigbee-window-treatment driver written by ST staff. If you’re using the RTS to Z-Wave bridge, I haven’t seen anything regarding it but someone else might know.

  - id: "SOMFY/Glydea Ultra Curtain"
    deviceLabel: SOMFY Window Treatment
    manufacturer: SOMFY
    model: Glydea Ultra Curtain
    deviceProfileName: window-treatment-profile
  - id: "SOMFY/Roller"
    deviceLabel: SOMFY Window Treatment
    manufacturer: SOMFY
    model: Roller
    deviceProfileName: window-treatment-profile
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Somfy’s are ZWave or RTS. If its RTS you need the bridge. If its ZWave. There are built in DTHs now but have not checked on EDGE yet. Look for *Springs Window Fashions) the retail name for Somfy’s offerings. Bali and Graber are rebranded Springs devices.

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Those are in the zwave-window-treatment driver, though the fingerprints for them are commented out in the latest version that ST has posted on GitHub so they might still be working on/testing them. I have 3 Bali shades that have been using that driver for a couple days and haven’t seen any issues.

  # - id: "springs/window"
  #   deviceLabel: Springs Window Shade
  #   manufacturerId: 0x026E
  #   productType: 0x4353
  #   productId: 0x5A31
  #   deviceProfileName: base-window-treatment
  # - id: "springs/roller"
  #   deviceLabel: Springs Roller Shade
  #   manufacturerId: 0x026E
  #   productType: 0x5253
  #   productId: 0x5A31
  #   deviceProfileName: base-window-treatment
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i have 104 zigbee devices today and 100% of them are already using driver. Groovy is dead for me.

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Somfy is confusing, in that they have ZWave, Zigbee, RTS, ZRTSI, TaHoma. I felt safest buying RTS motors and the TaHoma hub (which, as I understand will convert the RTS signal to Zigbee). I have the following (uninstalled- everything will get installed around the middle of this month):

  1. Glydea 35 Curtains

  2. Graber EvenPleat Shades; purchased from ZebraBlinds; this may be a SWF product as one of the FedEx tracking numbers shows “Spring Window Fashions” as Sender.

  3. Graber Wood Motorized Blinds; also ZebraBlinds and also may be a SWF product

  4. TaHoma Hub; already added to ST Hub

WILL be Graber branded Springs if you bought from ZebraBlinds

I thought so too, but the two products came from different locations, and one said “Spring Fashion” and the other did not :man_shrugging:t2:

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@philh30 , sorry for naive question, but i believe this one is what i’ll need… but what do i do with this code? I assume in the IDE, but where/how? Thanks

Those are the fingerprints of devices included in the ST-managed Edge drivers. Edge drivers are in beta, so you have the option of using them for your devices, with the understanding that you may run into bugs, or sticking with Groovy DTHs for now. Edge drivers have the benefit of running locally on your hub, which should mean faster execution and greater reliability. Troubleshooting them is a little more complicated right now, since their logs are only visible through the Command Line Interface (CLI) and don’t show on the Groovy IDE Live Logging page.

If you stick with Groovy, your devices will be automatically transitioned to Edge drivers when ST decides that it’s time to make the switch. If you want to use the Edge drivers now, the topic below has instructions for installing the ST drivers on your hub.

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This is incredibly helpful… Thank you so much! Happy New year!

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I plowed through some of the info you provided… As I’m perfectly content with all behaviors right now, I don’t think there’s enough reason to dig into the Beta world right now- especially since it appears that conversion will be automatic at a later point, and the need right now to delete devices in order to change over to Edge drivers will be a big job. However, I may as well do my window treatments’ fresh install with Edge- and I believe the Glydea fingerprint will be the correct one. Can you outline how I would do this install?

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That sounds like a good plan. It’s pretty simple - this is probably more detail than you need:

  1. If you’ve installed any custom Groovy DTHs that include the fingerprints for the devices that you’re trying to join to Edge, you’ll need to either delete those from the Groovy IDE or edit them to comment out or delete the fingerprint lines. This probably doesn’t apply unless you already have Zigbee window shades.

  2. In the topic that I linked in my last post, click on the channel invitation (under the Getting Started section). Enroll in the channel, then continue to the Available Drivers page and choose to install the zigbee-window-treatment driver. You can check the list of installed drivers by looking at the hub device in the app.

  3. (OPTIONAL) You may want to download and set up the CLI so that you can see logs. The ST drivers are sparse on logging though - you’ll likely only see the zigbee radio transmissions and ST event generation.

  4. Follow the normal inclusion process to join your devices. If they successfully join with an Edge driver, they will show as device type placeholder and with cloud execution when you look in the Groovy IDE (the old IDE doesn’t properly recognize Edge devices, so ignore the cloud part). In the app, the little menu on the device screen that you use to Edit the device name/room or to change device Settings will also have a Driver option.

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I have not seen this stated by ST staff anywhere: do you have a link? All I’ve seen is that Edge is still in development and transition details will be provided in the future.

For example:

I’ve also seen it said that custom DTHs will not be automatically converted to edge drivers. You can delete the device and re-add it and it should pick up a stock Edge Driver if there is one that matches the fingerprint, but that’s not the same thing.

So I think we just don’t know yet what the transition process will be. But maybe I missed something. :thinking:

@nayelyz @merrick777

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I may be reading too much into that, but my interpretation of “seamless” is that Z-Wave/Zigbee devices will be moved over to Edge and the fingerprinting process will map them to an “appropriate driver”. My own experience with legacy z-wave devices tells me that it’s possible to move from a DTH to Edge without exclude/include, though at the moment it requires exploiting a loophole. Admittedly, it’s speculation until a ST staffer maps out the customer transition and firmly says “You will not need to exclude/include your z-wave/zigbee devices as part of the transition”, but the alternative - that they’re expecting all of their customers to think “seamless” means hauling their hub up a ladder to exclude/include their devices - is ridiculous.

Let’s not conflate “custom DTHs” with “devices using custom DTHs”. You’re correct that ST is not converting custom DTHs by rewriting community members’ Groovy code in Lua. However, I would again argue that “seamless” will not mean deleting/re-adding a device. I’d also argue that ST isn’t going to keep the Groovy cloud going just because someone is still using a custom DTH. So “custom DTHs” will not be rewritten, but “devices using custom DTHs” will be mapped to an Edge driver.

Also, please don’t take one sentence out of context to play gotcha. The post you decided to quote was in response to the specific question “what do i do with this code?”. The code in question was a snip of the fingerprints for two specific Somfy zigbee devices in a stock ST driver. I stand by that sentence in its context, as I fully expect those devices to be automatically transitioned to that particular Edge driver at some point in the future.

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My apologies if I wasn’t clear: I definitely wasn’t looking for a “gotcha.“ As I said, I didn’t recall seeing anything that the transition would be automatic, but I also said I might’ve missed it, and clearly I did from the post that you quoted. So thank you for that.

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