What do I need to do to get ready for Sept 30?

Devices & Integrations
1

Is my V2 hub ready for Edge ?

So I was asleep at the switch for the past few months. Normally, I am on top of what changes are going on at smartthings, but work/life/etc got in the way the past 3 or 4 months. I knew that the switch to Edge was coming , but didn’t realize the transition starts on 9.30

My question here is: is my V2 hub ready to go and for the majority of my devices (leviton, lifx, hue, somfy, etc) do I have to do anything, or will they transfer over without assistance?

My Hub is on version 000.044.00009, which is what is required, but I see no indication of anything, uh, “edgy.”

Going to the hub on the ST app and hitting the three dots just shows the Edit, Z-Wave, Information entries and nothing else.

Sorry to come here with such a broad question, but while there is information for developers (downloading the CLI, enrolling the hub, the APIs, etc) there is almost zero general consumer information.

I am a developer and I do plan on bringing a lot of my personalized DHs over from Groovy, but I can do that in time. (I got completely off of WebCore reliance in December, so there is no concern the there.)

What I am concerned mostly with is: on Oct 1-15, does my house simply stop functioning? I have over 250 devices, so this is pretty concerning.

Thanks in advance folks.

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I think the short answer is “it depends.” :thinking:

  1. Any device which currently shows “placeholder” in the IDE is already using the new architecture, and should be fine. That should include cloud to cloud integrations and devices already using edge drivers.

  2. Hue is a special case because there are two available stock integrations: cloud to cloud and LAN. if it’s cloud to cloud, you’re fine. If it’s LAN, ST is currently working on a stock Edge Driver version, but it’s not available yet. There is a community-created version by @blueyetisoftware , but you would have to subscribe to that and manually transition. See the link to the quick browse lists at the end of this post to find this and other custom Edge Drivers.

  3. many hub-connected devices which currently use stock Groovy DTHs will be automatically transitioned to stock Edge Drivers, but not all. SmartThings has made the decision to NOT transition devices which have been officially discontinued by their manufacturers even if the devices have been running fine with stock groovy DTHs for years. This will obviously require research.

  4. any device which adds to ST as a “thing” and which then had to be manually changed to a stock DTH probably will not be automatically transitioned. More research.

  5. any device which used a parent/child structure, even if it was with a stock DTH, is probably going to have some glitches after the transition. Voice assistants might not be able to control the individual children (now called “components”) any more. The individual components may have weird names and may not be able to be renamed. Routines referring to the child devices may break.

  6. IFTTT and other thirdparty integrations like Logitech’s Harmony which used a groovy smartapp may break. Some of these third parties like IFTTT are working on new integrations for the new architecture, so it’s just a question of if the new version is ready in time. Other companies like Logitech have decided they are not going to create a new integration, so it will be up to the community to create one, if possible. So more research. :thinking:

  7. voice assistant should be ok except for the multicomponent issue described in 5. There is a workaround using virtual switches, but it has to be manually set up.

  8. SharpTools should work fine with the possible exception of multicomponent devices. Not sure about ActionTiles.

  9. As @jkp notes below, @rboy is waiting on SmartThings to complete work on the new platform, so he doesn’t have a lot of details yet. Here’s his Migration FAQ page, so watch that for updates as more info becomes available:

  1. @yvesracine will not transition his products to the new ST platform, but continues to actively support the Hubitat versions

  2. the new architecture does not presently display network IDs, which are required for setting up zwave associations and Zigbee groups. So even when the manufacturer is providing a custom edge driver, you might lose some functionality. @lmullineux just this morning released a new utility to allow you to view these IDs and @Mariano_Colmenarejo has a zwave Edge Driver that lets you set associations, but that’s all a lot of manual work. (You can find both of these utilities on the quick browse lists under Miscellaneous. See the end of this post.)

  3. it appears that some of the stock Edge Drivers reset existing zwave associations and parameters, in some cases incorrectly. That could cause lost or broken functionality, but it’s hard to predict in advance. So more research if you currently have zwave devices using association or you have changed any of the default parameter settings.

  4. if a device uses a custom DTH, it will be automatically transitioned to a custom edge driver with the same fingerprint if that custom driver has already been downloaded to your hub. Otherwise the system will try to guess the best matching stock driver. This could result in lost or broken functionality. Routines might also be affected.

  5. no details yet on what will happen to virtual devices and the routines that reference them. There are several possible variations: you do or don’t have a hub, you created the device with the wizard in the android app, you created the device through the IDE. But while we know these variable may be important, we don’t know the exact impact.

There are some community-created edge drivers for virtual devices that work fine if you want to go ahead and manually transition to those. You can find them on the Virtual Devices Quick browse list. (See the end of this post.)

  1. Devices currently using a custom edge driver are supposed to be left unchanged by the automatic transition.

  2. It’s unclear what will happen with some individual models of Leviton and WeMo WiFi devices: they don’t all seem to be included in the cloud to cloud integrations.

  3. You are limited to a total of 200 devices, 200 local automations, and 50 edge drivers.

  4. Webcore will not be automatically converted and will stop running eventually. If you use Webcore, you have a lot of research to do. Quite a few people are switching to the thirdparty rules engine from SharpTools. It supports a lot of complexity and doesn’t count against your ceiling for automations. But other people will make other choices.

19, The ABC button controller will stop working once the transition is complete. So will any groovy weather smartapps. @taustin has a weather service edge driver that will work for some weather use cases. See the Quick Browse list for Weather at the link at the end of this post.

  1. The old platform only required a mobile device for access to administrative tools like the IDE. The new platform will require a pc for most similar functions, even device logging. Anything you see that references the “CLI” is referencing a program you have to download and run on a pc or Linux device.

  2. SmartLighting is going to change, but no details yet or if there will be an automatic transition or what might change.

  3. If you have downloaded more than one custom edge driver for the same device, the system will randomly pick one. You can then manually change it to a different one.

  4. There is a table in the community-created wiki listing edge drivers by device model, but it’s brand new and a lot of stuff is missing. If you don’t see your device listed, it doesn’t mean there isn’t an edge driver, it might just mean no one’s made the table entry yet.

https://thingsthataresmart.wiki/index.php?title=Table_of_Edge_Drivers

  1. If you have a V2, V3, or Aeotec WASH hub, just check to make sure the firmware is up-to-date and it should be ready for the automatic transition.

The hubs that act as Wi-Fi mesh routers, on the other hand, continue to have some issues so that’s a little unclear.

Samsung Connect Home/SmartThings WiFi Hub Firmware Release Notes - 0.43.05

  1. The original announcement said the groovy cloud would go away on September 30th. That has since been quietly changed a couple of times. First it was changed to say the IDE would be removed October 15. Then it was changed again to say the transition would BEGIN happening on September 30. So just because a device/integration/smartapp works on October 1, don’t assume it will continue to do so. It may just not have transitioned yet.

Here’s the official announcement thread, in case it changes again. :wink:

The End of Groovy Has Arrived

——————
So…”it depends.” :thinking:

To find community-created edge drivers, see the quick browse lists in the community-created wiki.

https://thingsthataresmart.wiki/index.php?title=Quick_Browse_Lists_for_Edge_Drivers

@Automated_House @jkp

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@RBoy has posted a Migration FAQ’s so good place to keep track of any updates:

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SharpTools.io supports multicomponent devices. :smiley:

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Wow. This is a great summary! Thanks for the info.

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@JDRoberts per usual this is a great write-up. I haven’t done it justice yet, but I’m going to turn my mentalities to your response after work today. Hopefully, the Truth Is In There.
Thanks.

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Two additional questions:

  1. is there any way to tell by looking at the ST Hub entry in the ST App that the hub is “edge ready”? Or is that not a thing?
  2. all of my devices that say “placeholder” in the IDE do not have a corresponding “DRIVER” menu item in the app. My understanding is that I should have seen that. Or is that something I will only see when I register my hub with the CLI?
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See item 24 in my post above.

There are lots of devices that say “placeholder“ but don’t have edge drivers: anything with a cloud to cloud integration, for example. Edge Drivers are only for hub – connected devices, usually Zigbee or Z wave.

What’s the specific brand/model?

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For Wi-Fi Hubs there was a firmware release to support Edge drivers. The only issue reported is about LAN drivers that use multicast to discover devices but those for Z-Wave or Zigbee haven’t been reported. If you see a report about Wi-Fi Hubs, please let me know.
The post you linked is from 2021, the release was in July this year:

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Thanks @JDRoberts - ok, understood that other than making sure the firmware is above version 33, there’s no outward sign on the hub that it’s “ready”

As to the devices are listed as “placeholders,” it is mostly my LIFX, Hue, SOMFY, and (weirdly) my Spruce garden irrigation systems. None of my standard Zigbee or ZWave devices are listed. None of the leviton switches, old smartthings devices like power plug switches, Spring Window (zebrablind) shades, or Zwave door/window sensors show up.

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Slowly reading through the @JDRoberts list between meetings. The 200 limit on devices is going to be a serious problem for myself and others. This number seems arbitrary. @nayelyz and chance this can be upped to something more reasonable?

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That’s because the official transition hasn’t started yet for most of the wave and Zigbee devices. They should still show the old DTHs for now.

You won’t see “driver“ as an option in the app until an edge driver has been download it to your own hub that matches that fingerprint so unless you’ve signed up for the beta test, you probably don’t have any yet.

Right now, most people are only seeing “placeholder“ for cloud to cloud integrations.

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Thanks for the clarity @JDRoberts . I did not sign up for the beta, so that make sense. (Although it is really nerve-wracking that I won’t “know” what is supported until a switch is thrown server-side. It means I don’t have the ability to prepare.)

Is it a fair assumption that everyone will see the “driver” option on the edge-backed devices, or is that just reserved for developers that register their hubs via the CLI? (Which I plan to do over the weekend, btw)

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Once a driver has been installed on your hub and is available to use, then and only then do you see the “driver“ option in the app for that device. So the app isn’t telling you that a driver exists somewhere. It’s just telling you what’s on your own hub.

No registration with the CLI should be required.

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This is been held in a closed alpha waiting on ST to release their support for SSE (Server Sent Events). I may take this to an open beta soon since I don’t know when/if ST will release their version. I will likely open it up prior to Sept 30 with a few caveats about functionality that isn’t ready yet.

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The device limit is not new. It has been in place for at least a couple years.

So if you have hit that limit, you should already know it.

If you search the community, you will find it has been discussed ad nauseum.

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Excellent. Thanks @JDRoberts

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That’s true and not-true at the same time. (Very Schrodenger of it.)

The 200 device limit was true in the ST App, but there was a path to add additional devices. (Let’s be clear:The server allowed it, but the app tried to prevent it - in conversation with ST staff and in observations, this limitation was imposed because of UI refresh limitations, and had nothing to do with what the server-side could handle.)

In the last 6 months, that limit went away through all of the pathways in the app. You can now add more than 200 devices very easily, through all of the pathways. I have 248 devices right at this moment, all of which are operating just fine. 200 will, in fact, curtail those devices for me. I will gain some ground because not all of my devices will make the transition, but I will still be over 200. Others are in this boat as well.

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Thanks for the update @blueyetisoftware

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Going with multiple hubs in the same location may be a workaround. Perhaps divide it up with zwave on one, zigbee on another (another way to work around the 50 driver/hub limit). One caveat is any hub<->hub communication requires the cloud, so routines that work on devices across hubs will never run local.

Spare V2/V3 hubs are cheap on eBay. Just make sure you get the welcome code or you’ll have to call support.