Smartthings App Device Data Lost: Best Path Forward?

@rbcap

Up stream I explained this a little better

Not really unless you want a shinny new toy or envision your setup growing larger then what I stated above. It would be an overkill!

In my opinion no. Allthough there is a multihub feature for the Station that would allow you to add more Stations as kind of a Zigbee mesh extender. you can read a little more about this discussion between Jd and h0ckeysk8er with a link to the Samsung announcement from Jd.

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Mine are all Wi-Fi connections. If I had both the V3 hub and Station, should those apps be linked to Smartthings within the V3 hub or the Station (if that is even relevant)? Pros & cons? Tx

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Not relevant, they link to the SmartThings cloud, Not you hub.

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As @mlchelp said, most Wi-Fi devices never touch the hub, and they are not assigned to a hub. They work the same way for people who have a hub and people who don’t.

The exception is matter over Wi-Fi, because those run locally via an edge driver on a specific hub.

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Creating a Multi-Hub Network

Starting with the SmartThings Station, users can now create a multi-hub network in their home, adding additional hubs to their primary one, which becomes part of the Thread mesh

As commented elsewhere, there seems to exist the idea, from the above and other statements by Samsung executives, that the Station might mark the way forward for multi hub networks.

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And certain LAN Edge driver devices such as Sonos, Bose, Hue, Wemo, etc.

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Good point, there are a handful of official integrations with LAN Devices. But not many, and none of the devices that the OP listed, I believe. :man_shrugging:t2:

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I know it’s going to be a tedious process to pair my Z-wave devices to the Aeotec hub, but I’m OK with it - there is no other way. So basically, I’ll be starting from scratch with a new Aeotec hub and a Smartthings Station. I believe I still have a Smartthings account (App?). I wonder if there is a step-by-step guide to get this done correctly, e.g. I assume I start with locating and opening my Smartthings app (or create one if need be). Once that’s done, I assume I need to link the Aeotec hub and Station to the Smartthings app. Does it matter what order I do this, i.e. Hub or Station first? Sorry for the very basic questions I’m asking here. I just want to get it done right the first time and start enjoying my home automation system again. Tx

It doesn’t make any difference what order you add the two hubs in.

The following thread covers best practices for setting up a Smartthings/Aeotec Hub.

Start with post 11 in the thread (I’ll link directly to that one), read it, and then go up to the top of the thread, and read the rest of the information.

A Guide to Wireless Range & Repeaters - #11 by JDRoberts

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I would add the Aeotec first, and then you have to exclude all of your Z-Wave devices before you add them again. This is done by going into the app, selecting the Aeotec hub, tapping the three dots at the top right, choosing settings, navigating to Z-Wave Utilities, and selecting Z-Wave Exclusion. Then you need to find the instructions for each device and follow the directions to put it into exclusion mode, and you should see a confirmation that it has been removed.

You can use your current V2 hub to do this now for each device if you want to while you’re waiting for the Aeotec to arrive.

You never did tell us what devices you have. If you let me know which devices you have with model numbers, I will help you with the instructions on exclusion and inclusion.

Your August smart lock is going to be the difficult one. This has to be paired right near the hub. The Aeotec hub is wireless, so after you add it, you will be able to move it around close to the device you are trying to pair. In general, locks should always be added near the hub and then moved to their permanent position. I know you have wall switches, and you should start with the switch closest to your hub and then work outward. Picture a star formation and work out to the last device. This will build your Z-Wave mesh as you go.

Also, make sure you pair all of your Z-Wave devices to the Aeotec and then add the Station and pair all of your Zigbee devices to that. When you add a new device with a multi-hub setup, the app will prompt you about which hub you want to add the device to. This is very important for your Zwave mesh and Zigbee mesh to work properly.

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As a former Z wave technician, I have to respectfully disagree with this advice. If you do it this way, which is called “bench pairing,“ then none of the devices will know who their true neighbors are. This will cause a lot of issues with the mesh.

If you do want to do bench pairing, then, after everything is back where it belongs, you’ll need to run Z wave repair to get the Neighbor tables updated.

But you may not need to do that. It depends on how old your devices are, in terms of Z wave generation.

Once you get to Z wave plus (the 5th generation), almost all Z wave devices can be “paired in place”, which means you install them where they’re going to stay, you leave the hub in its usual position, and as long as there is a path of repeaters from the hub to that device, you should be able to pair it. If you do it this way you don’t need to run the Z wave repair at the end, and everybody knows their true neighbors from the beginning.

I agree that it is best to start with the mains powered devices closest to the hub and work out from there. But as long as the devices are Z wave plus or newer, just leave the hub where it’s going to be and add the Devices one at a time working outwards, and it should work fine. :sunglasses:

The big exception to all of the above is zwave locks, which typically need to be paired within “whisper distance” of the hub, typically about 3 m. This is so they can exchange a security key. If you do have zwave locks And you use bench pairing, or you bring the hub close to the lock to pair, just remember to run the Z wave repair utility at the end.

Again, see the best practices in the following post:

A Guide to Wireless Range & Repeaters - #11 by JDRoberts

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I meant to say locks, not devices, I have corrected my reply.

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Sorry about that


These are my devices:

  • 28 Z-wave dimmers and switches including:

    • some old Leviton units (10+ years);

    • some GE units (4-8 years);

    • some Zooz units, including 3-way switches/dimmers and two 700 Series ZEN32 Z-Wave Plus Scene controller switches (2-5 years);

  • four Ring doorbells (hard-wired type) (1-6 years old); and one Ring security system (1-year old). I also have a monitored security system that operates independently of all the other devices at this time.

  • One August door lock (4-5 years old)

  • one Ecobee smart thermostat (5-6 years old)

  • Samsung Galaxy S22 android phone

  • Fitbit Sense smart watch

Note that I don’t have any Zigbee devices at this time. Going forward, I’m not sure if I’ll continue with Z-wave or move towards Matter-compatible devices, e.g. Zigbee or some other platform???, any suggestions? Based on the reading I’ve done related to this post, it seems like something other than Z-wave or Zigbee may be better for integrating with Matter
 Comments?

Thanks all for your valuable comments. I feel like I’m communicating with some highly skilled and knowledgeable experts (especially JDRoberts and mlchelp} who are genuinely interested in being helpful to fellow members and contributing to this forum. Best regards.

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At the present time, the only end devices that are individually certified for Matter use either Wi-Fi or thread. Typically Wi-Fi for Main‘s powered devices and thread for battery powered devices.

There are also some “Matter Bridges” which allow you to add some specific zigbee Devices to a matter setup. These work very much like the hue bridge did before matter. The bridge communicates with the devices via zigbee, but then the bridge itself typically uses Wi-Fi to communicate with other systems. (Some matter Bridges, like the SwitchBot hub 2, Bridge their own brand’s Bluetooth devices in the same way. Bluetooth to the bridge and then Wi-Fi out to matter.)

Matter is based on IP V6, addressing, which Wi-Fi and thread already use, and which Zigbee can be pretty easily integrated with.

At the time of this writing, regular Z wave uses a completely different addressing scheme, which is why it’s not part of the initial matter project. It does seem likely that if matter takes off, there will eventually be at least zwave to matter bridges, but we aren’t there yet.

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These might be functional, but we would require a model number for each one so that we can provide you with accurate directions. Keep in mind that some of these models are quite old!

You should be fine with the Zooz stuff. Just search on the forum for the model number, and you will probably find pairing directions.

This lock should also work; again, just search the forum for directions and the required driver.

This should also work; simply search the forum.

Some devices are compatible with the stock SmartThings driver, while others require a custom Edge community driver. Stock drivers will load automatically, but custom drivers need to be added to your hub before attempting to pair the device.

Read this How to install Edge drivers and Where to find and how to install Edge device drivers

Most of what you learned about SmartThings no longer applies!

These are a few links to the more popular driver channels that you may need,

Mariano Shared Beta Driver Click Here

Taustin Edge Drivers Channel Click Here

Philh30 Edge Driver Channel

You have a lot of work ahead of you and a lot of reading to do!

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Are all Wi-Fi switches compatible with Matter? Pros & cons of Wi-Fi and Z-wave/Zigbee switches?

I’m not sure what defines a “bridge” but don’t the V2 and V3 hubs already do that?

  • The Leviton switches are labeled “Vizia RZ106 600W”.

  • The GE switches are “GE Enbrighten Z-Wave Plus Smart Light Switch”

Not at all. I’d say at this point at the time of this posting over 98% of Wi-Fi devices are not using matter. It’s literally only a handful. In fact, one of the main reasons for starting the matter project was that unlike Z wave and Zigbee, Wi-Fi did not have any standardized set of Home Automation messages. So one Wi-Fi light switch might expect to get the message “on” to turn on and another might expect to get the message “97” to turn on and another might expect to get the message “100”— wi-Fi itself does not define the content of messages. So every Wi-Fi switch manufacturer made up their own rules. Matter was supposed to standardize that so that every switch that was certified for matter, regardless of whether it used Wi-Fi or thread, or anything else would use the same message content to turn a light switch on. That’s enabling it to work with more platforms and more apps.

At the time of this writing, I believe there are less than a dozen Wi-Fi switches that you can actually buy that support matter. (Leviton, Kasa, and Tapo each have some. So far there are very few others, although another couple of dozen have promised, some models will be available in the future, but they aren’t here yet.)

Here’s one list of what’s available to buy today. Make sure you check the far right column. Only the ones that are marked in Green as “ready“ are now available, a lot of them are just “announced.“

Overview: Devices compatible with Matter | matter-smarthome

MATTER BRIDGES

As far as “matter bridges“, I hate to keep repeating myself, but have you read the FAQ about what you need to use matter with SmartThings? It has a detailed discussion of what a “matter bridge“ is, and in particular, it says, at least twice that, no, at the time of this writing no smartthings/aeotec hub works as a “matter bridge.” I could go into more details about that, but one of the main reasons I write FAQs to begin with is so that I don’t have to keep writing the same post over and over.

FAQ: What do I need to add a Matter device to the SmartThings app? Do I need a bridge router device?

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If it were me, I would replace these switches. They’re definitely end-of-life and Z-Wave, not Z-Wave Plus! I also don’t see an Edge driver for these when searching the forum. You have a choice of getting a Matter, Zigbee, or Z-Wave switch. I also don’t know anything about your Wi-Fi setup and if it’s up to date and can support IPv6. To support Matter, you’re going to need a strong, modern mesh network. What’s the current state of your Wi-Fi network?

These switches are Z-Wave Plus and should work fine. You can add them, and they will pair with the stock Edge driver. If you encounter any issues, you can use one of the drivers created by Philh30; I provided you a link to his drivers upstream in this topic.

All the information you need to make your setup work is contained in this forum. You have a lot of searching and reading to do. Jd has an excellent write-up on searching the forum to find the information you need. FAQ: Using the quick browse lists without the community wiki

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If you like Leviton, their D26HD dimmer switch is Matter over WiFi, and should be a good candidate for you.

(Some of their other models also support matter, but not all, so you have to research each model you’re considering.)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08RRM8VH5/

Again: read product descriptions carefully. For example, while the D26HD dimmer switch does support matter, the D24SF fan switch from the same model line does not. But that fan switch will still work with SmartThings through their cloud to cloud integration. So it all depends on what you’re looking for. :thinking:

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