Smart lighting missing options

So I, like everyone else, got migrated and have started poking at the new way of Smart lighting. I purposely waited to see what the ‘stock’ experience would be and honestly everything so far is working just with some small changes (tho not everything I have is migrated driver wise). But those small changes made me notice once I was migrated so I went looking. Like the order of lights coming on in my kitchen changed (small thing but I do want to try to make it different now). Ive used the old SmartLighting for like 7 years now and it ‘just worked’.

Here’s my problem/question, how is it still working as expected with missing options? I go to setup a new routine in Smart lighting and it doesnt have the option for ‘turn off after x mins after motion stops’ for example. You have no options to turn off lights after triggering them that I can see. Now everything existing is working as it was, most my stuff is turn off the light 2mins after motion stops and Ive seen no change so far. That’s cool/good, but how am I to edit these? If I do edit them do I lose that function? I assume the way everyone will say is ‘setup another routine to turn off the light 2 mins after motion stops’. That would automatically double the number of routines, I assume there’s a limit somewhere and for the normal use thats fine, I have say maybe 50 routines in there (more than a few pages scrolling as Im not counting lol). So at what point is that a problem/limit?

Smartthings/Samsung devs, are you going to not have a ‘turn off the light’ option to a trigger ever again? I mean seems kinda logical that you would turn off a light you turned on with say a motion sensor or a open/close sensor? Shouldn’t the replacement offer the same functionality as the old? I understand the need to get it out there fast for this shutdown, but if this is not on the roadmap that seems like an oversight.

Is the only way doing this going to be setup another routine for every motion/open event to turn off lights? If so is there a known limit to routines or one that causes issues?

I don’t use Smart lighting as I prefer ST Routines. In Routines many times you need a 2nd Routine to turn a device off. So that might also apply to the new smart lighting.

The limit on automations (routines, smart lighting, etc) is currently 1000, so you should not run out.


In the new smart lighting app click on the Device status line for a motion detector. Then click on the Motion line. Select OK on the device list. The option to Turn off after motion stops is there with the adjustable number of minutes.

I agree that it looks odd without any indication earlier in the process.

Thats not totally what I mean. Previously in the turn on routine you had an option there to turn off after motion stops. So you make 1 routine for turning it on and off. Not needing 2 routines one for the on and one for the off. Seems logical to me as 99% of the time you’d want to turn off after that condition ends. If you dont you dont set it, and you set another routine for whatever you want to trigger the off.

But most the time you’d want to turn off a light when you close the door for example, like a car. Having 2 routines to do that seems like too granular or half thought out process.

It looks like Smart lighting is now just a wrapper for Routines, Paul. The process/flow seems slightly tweaked but the limitations and logic seems the same. Like what made me notice the change was lights turning on in a different order. They do that because it turned 1 SmartLighting routine into 2 now, because the lights Im turning on have different capabilities. White only on 2 of them, rgbw for 5 of them. So it split them into two routines cause you cant set different options for the lights. I was going to change it to a scene when I noticed this change to not turn off the lights.

I dont want to redo everything in routines from Smart lighting but may. I try to keep my ST setup very stock and by the book because the first few years I fought the system so much it barely worked. Trying to do it how they suspect everyone uses it makes it go smoother, so thats why ive had 5 years of pretty smooth sailing


Both Routines and the new SmartLighting are using the new Rules API, so a different UI to the same rules engine.

I have no idea why there are still two of them or why they expose slightly different capabilities. :thinking:

In the old architecture, smartlighting was completely different code, which ran mostly on the hub while routines ran mostly in the cloud. But with the new architecture, it just seems to be a UI distinction.

In the new SL, you can still trigger a light to go on from any available motion sensor. Once you do, it gives you a dialog to auto turn off after X mins after motion stops.

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I see. What I was doing is triggering a scene because you cant set color on bulbs if you group them with white only bulbs. Instead of being able to set each individual bulb’s settings like before, you have to set the group, and it takes the least common denominator for what you can set.

But you cant ‘turn off a scene’. I get it the logic now.

Dont like that I cant set each bulb’s settings individually thus needing two rules for two different types of lights. But I get what they are doing now. Thanks for that ‘ah hah’ moment. Guess for this situation of needing to group 2 cree connected 2700k bulbs with 5 Hue rgbw BR30 lights, Ill need 2 Routines no matter what.

Seems picky but when I walk into the kitchen, the bar lights used to come on first now they are last. Why thats picky/annoying is you enter by the bar so Id like them not take the 2-3 seconds to walk through the rest of the can lights leaving me in a darker area longer. Super picky but its annoying lol.

Also being picky that you have to dig like 3-4 taps deep to get to that and there is no evidence it is set. Why I thought it was gone. You have to touch the motion sensor, then select it again, before seeing the turn off with delay. So when I look at my routines there it doesnt show it at the top level so thats why i thought it was gone. Before it showed it on the main screen it had a ‘off after’ selected. Picky little UI things

Thanks for pointing out the logic I was screwing up. By trying to move to a scene, i cant on/off a scene. Seems kinda ‘meh’ that you cant but I get that scenes have different logic. Hmmm not to rethink a few things I guess. Lighting is 90% of what I do with ST, so being a little picky is required.

But thanks for slapping me in the face with it :slight_smile: