Loss of State affecting some users / some SmartApps (was Death knell for RM today?)

Agreed. SmartTiles (and Nest Manager and CoRE) provide a functionality that SmartThings hasn’t been able to offer, so I’m not surprised that they pointed to you for backup functionality. I’m looking ahead to V6, so I’m not in a rush to go and fix my CSS.

That being said, @tonesto7 wasn’t sure why Nest Manager Automations* got hit, as they don’t use State. I’m leaving those automations alone as well, and haven’t gotten around to rebuilding CoRE (busy week). Maybe somebody much smarter than myself can piece together what the root cause is.

*EDIT: a word

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It appears that some integrations which stored credentials also got hit.

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We use atomicState for things like dtStamps or temporary storage, but almost everything is based off settings[] which were completely blanked out in the child app.


The explanation is over my head, at the moment, but I plan on learning when I have free time, that just hasn’t happened in the last 6 months.

If I have time tonight, I’ll have to dig through my other SmartApps to see if anything more subtle got hit as well though. I know several of them rely on settings for logins and preferences that I don’t see day-to-day. The only obvious indication I had was that my SmartTiles looked wrong, and that sent me down the rabbit hole looking for lost automations.

Coincidence, Nah, I don’t think so. Let’s go through some facts:

  • My Netatmo integration with other platforms (VeraPlus, ImperiHome…) did not have any issues and is still working, and they have not released any updates, so it looks like the Netamo API hasn’t changed and it’s working;
  • ST Support told me that some users were able to login/connect again using the Netatmo (connect) smart app and that this resolved the issue, and also since this hasn’t affected all ST users that use Netatmo it looks like the Smart App and Child DH codes are still working;
  • I’ve reported to ST Support that I’m unable to login/connect to Netatmo because when I try it’s returning and XML page with the message “error=invalid_token”;
  • Curiously there is a variable called “accessToken” and it’s stored on the smart app Application State.
    Let’s see: does it look like there was an issues with the Application State of this Smart App? Just saying…

Déjà vu circa April…

History repeats itself again :unamused:


Have I missed it?



You missed that everything from ST, while may seem specific to a reasonable person, is actually relative.

For example, the term Weekly.

This is culture. Adopted by the C suite.


Hey, bi-weekly has the word weekly in it, which is better than biannual, which only recently replaced annual. But the reality is, that there shouldn’t be any updates if things would roll like they are supposed to. We don’t need updates on f-ups, we just need no f-ups.


It’s coming. We’re ironing out some details for the full post mortem.


known bug, will get fixed. Eventually. It’s in the javascript realm…

“When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” - Leonard Nimoy


Actually Spock quoting Sherlock Holmes. Credit where credit is due and all that. :wink:


Haha, leave it to JD to dig up the facts! You are the real authority :wink: glad you are here!


Please let us know when we can expect SmartThings to stay stable for at least one month. Based on history, that has never happened.


Thanks for your time.

I don’t understand the question…? Don’t you think SmartThings is trying to avoid outages? Do you think they have a crystal ball to know exactly when a specific target level of reliability will be reached? :crystal_ball:

Complex systems inherently have reliability issues. Except for “anomalies” or specific explained reasons for steps-backwards, the best way to predict when a particular level of reliability will be reached is by extrapolating from a trend-line of what should be a steadily increasing “average time between outages” (MTBF), or “Maintenance Free Operating Period” (MFOP) as suggested by @JDRoberts.


MFOP can also be an engineering target.

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I think a better question would be: daddy, are we there yet? :wink:



But the severity of the outages / maintenance is also important to track for trends.

The duration, number of users, and amount of functionality affected, etc., all play a part in measuring severity.

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Lol why are you asking new questions when they can’t even answer the promised one:

what happened?