Finding what Automations or SmartApps devices are a part of

In the old app, there was a screen or tab in the details of a device telling you which SmartApps/Automations/whatever-the-equivalent-was-then that device was a part of. So, if (as I’m experiencing now) lights were turning on for seemingly no reason, you could determine what the cause was.

How do we do that in the new app?

You can still see what legacy Groovy SmartApps a device is associated to via the IDE (Log in > My Devices > Click device > “In use by”). At the moment there is nothing that states explicitly what Automations (created using the Automation Builder) a device is in use by.

However, in the “History” section, Automation executions should be logged. So, if you know when the Light came on, then you could check the “History” section of the App for the Automation’s name and go from there.

Are you experiencing Lights turning on randomly at the moment or is this just a general question?

Thank you! It’s a question with, admittedly, little troubleshooting preceding it. But yes, I am experiencing it now.

Things are just a bit busy right now and quickly going through all of my ST Automations and Smart Lighting automations still took over twenty minutes. So, I’m sure I just missed it, but with the old app, this was a matter of tapping on the device and finding the cause.

I just did a quick peek at History as that sounds like it would functionally be the equivalent, but with all of my sensors and buttons, it’s littered with temperature and ‘No motion’ events. I found where I could filter everything else out, but do we have to tap every single device? There’s no ‘all off’ or 'all on?"

You certainly do in the current version of the app. It is ridiculous that it is necessary, but I find it is well worth clearing every single device. That five or ten minutes of boredom turns the History into a just about useful tool.

You can’t search the history and if you scroll back you have to get to where you need to be before it refreshes and takes you to the top again so the less content you have, the better. I just leave it set to ‘Other’ so I can see the Automations / Rules / Scenes being activated and then add other devices as required.

@garrett.kranz When I have to exclude and re-include devices due to endless issues, or when a device vanishes for some reason, it is quite difficult to rebuild automations without having a list of where they were used. When the IDE goes away, I hope we will have some alternative place to look at. When I exclude a device I take a screenshot of the IDE section that shows what I have to rebuild… but the IDE is going away…

Also, rebuilding Automations and Smart Lighting when a device is excluded is a pain as nothing is shown until you add a device so you have to randomly add something to see what the automation was doing and then make the correction.

Would be nice if changes were made to more easily determine what each device is used by, and what each “disabled” automation/SL did before one of it’s devices got nuked. Keeping the automatically generated name would help, for example.

I do find it rather ironic that devices in Automations that cannot be properly characterized for technical reasons can be presented as Unknown Devices, yet when you delete a device and it would be incredibly useful for the now non-existent device to be presented as an Unknown Device the Automation is deleted instead.

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So to be clear, you are not experiencing any issue at the moment that you’d like help on?

This was a device presentation issue that should now be fixed for most any device with an even remotely proper DTH. Are you still seeing “Unknown device” on anything you are using?

If the device serves as the principal/only trigger for an Automation and is deleted, the Automation does go with it. Are you saying if for example, one device (out of 3 total) that trigger an Automation is deleted you are having the Automation still be deleted? If so, I’d definitely like to review and report that, as that is not expected.

If what is leftover after on an Automation after a device is deleted is still usable, then the Automation should persist.

No, I am saying that if a device is deleted, any Automation using it should be disabled and the now deleted device shown as an Unknown Device. It should never be deleted just because it isn’t perceived as usable. It can be made usable in seconds but only if it is still there. Neither should it persist in an enabled state.

Consider a simple Automation like

If A1 switch is on
Then set A2 switch to on

If you delete A2 you get

If A1 switch is on
Then set Unknown Device switch to on

That’s perfect. Then a few seconds later it gets deleted. WTF?

On the other hand if you have

If A1 switch is on
Then set A2 switch to on
     set A3 switch to on

Delete A2 now and you end up with

If A1 switch is on
Then set A3 switch to on

So you end up with a different Automation and yet it is still enabled. Why? What if A3 being on needs A2 on to operate safely? Just because it can run, doesn’t mean it should. That’s actually as bad as being deleted.

So my comment is on the irony that the unwanted Unknown Devices appearing because of device presentation issues would actually be great to see for deleted devices, but we get something unhelpful instead.

There is a sort of connection with the original thread here. Keeping Automations intact aids diagnosis and repair.

It can be recreated almost as quickly to the same point, though. How long would you expect a empty shell of an Automation to persist in the Cloud? Indefinitely? That doesn’t really sound realistic, either.

Let’s be real here this is a pretty unrealistic scenario, it’s not a great idea to be relying on a cloud-based Automation to control something like that in the first place. But, I think if that were to be the case, special care would be considered when removing the device in question to begin with.

I do get this feedback, I really do. But it is a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don’t scenario in my mind. It would be a very complex operation to re-establish event subscriptions, schedules, patch existing rules to contain the new Device ID, etc. to do what you are suggesting. Making it work at scale and 100% of the time also a pretty big challenge.

All said and done, the original post was asking where is the shortcut per device to its attached automation… unfortunately its option was removed in the new architecture and is massively missed , many many many of us miss this option which used to exist in the original smartthings

If trying to resolve issues months after automations had been created the process verges on the
‘Loosing the will to live’ and with me I just give up

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