Accidentally Removed Hub - With NO Warning!

@nayelyz @AlejandroPadilla I was trying to exclude a Z-Wave device using the Hub “device”. Instead of hitting Settings my finger accidentally hit Remove device. It deleted the hub and ALL associated devices without any warning what-so-ever. Very frustrating!!

iOS client 1.17.10.22

Any way to bring back the hub, paired devices, automations - everything back without having to re-setup all 100’s of devices and automations again?

That’s not your fault really. It’s bad design. Any time something of major consequence is about to occur, there should be a failsafe: “You are about to delete your entire system. Are you sure you want to do this?”

I see stuff like this everywhere. Mission-critical servers; the “sign out” and “shut down” options are right on top of each other. And you click “shut down” by accident, and suddenly hundreds of users cannot access their data. It’s even an issue with Waze! The “still there” and “not there” options right on top of each other (first attached image). You’re driving. You reach to press the “still there” option but miss slightly… why can’t they separate these things onscreen to prevent mis-reporting (second image)??

It’s all these type things that show how programmers and corporate executives continue to be out of touch with user experience.

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Hi @RBoy Let me check if it is possible. I tried with the same version of iOS, but a warning message is displayed. So, I’m wondering if this, in your case, could be a bug.

@RBoy Unfortunately, I received confirmation that it will not be possible I’m sorry, I was exploring the possibility of using the Hub Replace feature. However, in this case, as the hub was deleted, the cloud representation was deleted as well.

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I think it would be nice to cover the situation with a notice that says “ the current cloud backup for this hub will be deleted in 72 hours unless you check the box below for immediate deletion.”

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On Android you get …

‘Spare’ is the name of the hub in this case.

The text is OK but it is all rather matter of fact, as if removing your hub is unremarkable. It just doesn’t scream ‘STOP’ at me.

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They should store the cloud backup for at least 72 hours, irrespective of checking any boxes.

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It’s more complicated for some European customers because of the “right to be forgotten.“ although it doesn’t specify a specific timeline for deleting all of the customer’s information, once requested to do so, it’s basically an “with all due speed“ rule. The fact that they can delete it immediately probably means that they should. The longer timelines are really intended for paper records that have to be located and then physically destroyed.

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Yes, I have a few cloud-based databases that I host in the Netherlands and London. I am required to delete customer data within one month after receiving a request from the company or user. This is part of my annual ITS certification. The key is the user has to request it!

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Some feedback for the UI team. Keep the delete hub option highlighted in a different color and away from the zwave utilities button - in fact away from the main menu. Deleting a hub isn’t something that should ever happen accidentally.

Here’s the case of another user who did the same mistake a few days ago - hit delete hub instead of zwave utilities and lost it all. It’s more common than the team may think.

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Ideally, this option should be renamed from “Remove Device” to “Remove Hub”. I almost deleted my hub several times ove the last several days while struggling to get some devices to pair and accidentally hitting this when wanting to remove some devices from the hub making the same mistake as the use mentioned above, just thankfully, I didn’t blindly make that next tap…

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I already shared some feedback with the team, but it would be a good idea to share the feedback on this topic because we can share the feedback with the team.

Unfortunately, we don’t have permission to use Facebook.

Quoting FYR (I’ve truncated the mid which talks about other stuff, the problem in highlighted in bold):

Long ass post, forgive me.
A month or so ago, while absent mindedly attempting to exclude a Zooz sensor, I deleted my hub. Yeah, dumb. But in my defense, if you are accessing ZWave utilities in the app, deleting the hub entirely is just two key presses. And if you aren’t paying attention ( I wasn’t) you just made your day a whole lot worse.
I was pissed–at myself and also at SmartThings. You shouldn’t be able to delete everything so easily and as we all know, ST has no backup and there is no way to restore any of it. You need to start from scratch when you make that mistake. I saw it as my mistake but also, just another perceived inadequacy in Smartthings. It certainly is!
I had well over 100 devices and dozens of routines. I decided to take a deep breath and think for a few days.
As a side note, if you are dumb enough to delete your hub, a few odd things will occur. One is, although there are no longer any devices, automations, routines or even a hub in the app, if you leave the hub plugged in, your triggered automations will run exactly as before. That means if you have a motion sensor that turns on some lights at various times, it will still run. I have no idea why. At first it gave me some hope that I would be able to restore some of it–after all, how could everything be gone if the hub is triggering stuff normally.
My next thought was to ditch ST entirely.

The Zooz range extenders helped when deployed properly. Finally, in excluding/adding about 120 devices from scratch, I had to visit my original nemesis many times–that place in the ST Hub drop down where you can ‘delete a device’ or choose ‘Zwave utilities…’ My finger hesitated only once. ST should really fix that! And provide a way to backup the entire install. After all, reinstalling isn’t necessarily just from a bonehead move like mine-- you could simply have your hub fail.

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Simply restore from the local backup.

(A modern home automation platform does include reliable, robust, local backups, right?)

what backup? if the hub gets deleted from the system, I don’t imagine there is a backup (in terms of hub replace).

I’m guessing the sarcasm font was used as a dig at the long running lack of LOCAL backup… :slight_smile:

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Unlike a decade ago, you can no longer expect a PC at the same location as your smart hub. Where would local backup occur? On a phone?

There are lots of options. (Choice is good.) Several security systems just write to an SD card. Some home automation systems let you write your backup to a second hub. Some require that you have some kind of local server device, but it certainly doesn’t have to cost as much as a laptop. A local NAS may be another option. I don’t know anyone who backs-up to a phone, but I suppose that’s possible. Choice is good. :sunglasses:

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@RBoy I see what you mean. Not sure how when removing a Z-wave device, actually removing the hub and all devices is listed as “remove device”, it’s kind of what happens when a multi national has different departments spread across countries with communication and cultural issues, this kind of thing would never of happened when SmartThings was under one roof.

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When you delete a hub, and I believe the same may still be true of wiping your data completely, you are presented with a warning message and asked to confirm the action. The chances are that you were anticipating this for whatever it was that you thought you were doing. So there is simply nothing unexpected about it, and nothing to actually interrupt your flow.

When @alwas told me what had happened I contrasted it to what you have to do to get your app into Developer Mode, which is such an innocuous thing that it barely needs to exist:

If you want to get into developer mode in the app you first have to discover that there is even such a thing as developer mode that you need to get into. Then you need to discover how to get to the on/off switch for it. Then you have to go to an innocent looking link on one of the more remote pages of the app and hold it down for five seconds or so. Then you have to scroll the page to reveal the on/off switch.

This is immediately leads to:

Why isn’t there a ‘Let me do something dangerous’ mode for doing things like deleting a hub or wiping out all your user data?

However, there are so many other things that could be required when you are deleting a hub. The very least would be to at least verify that you are not just some random person who has picked up the phone.

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