2.4/5GHz WiFi and duplicate SSID Discussion

bloomsky
onhub

(Jimmy) #1

Has anybody had luck switching the WiFi network their Bloomsky is attached to? I got around to creating a second network in my AP, but i’m having trouble getting it to connect to the new one using the Router Connection reset option. it could also be that my Google OnHub setup the new network on 5ghz only, but the OnHub doesn’t have a way to assign frequency to each ssid.


Bloomsky Weather Station
(ocpd+adhd+alz+md+hfa+fms+lol=me :)) #2

Yes. I have done this multiple times on at least a couple different BloomSky units.
It’s not always ‘straight-forward’, but it does eventually work after doing the 8 second WiFi button reset press.

In my experience though, there’s no assigning of band to SSID. It works the other way around. The WiFi radios that are in there are what they are. If it’s a 2.4 radio, it’s 2.4 and if it’s a 5 radio, it’s 5. If it has both, then they are each just what they are.

You name the SSID for each radio.

Best idea (for multiple reasons, and this BloomSky unit is one of them; another case would be trying to work with a v1 Chromecast, because it also only has a 2.4GHz WiFi radio) is to name all SSIDs differently and keep track of them somewhere to make sure you always know exactly which one to connect a particular device to.

Before that though, you have to be able to get into the settings for your router and figure out which radio is 2.4 and which is 5GHz.

If you post the make and model of your router, we could look it up and try to help.


(Jimmy) #3

I have the TP-Link Google On-Hub. The downside of this router is there aren’t many advanced configuration features. They sacrificed those for the sake of ease of use. I went through a couple rounds of the 8 second WiFi button reset without any luck. It would connect back to my old ssid fine, just not the new one.

This article makes it sound like the device should have automatically picked the 2.4 ghz band
https://support.google.com/onhub/answer/6293481?hl=en&ref_topic=6246470


(ocpd+adhd+alz+md+hfa+fms+lol=me :)) #4

@prjct92eh2
Bummer. I just took a look around, and according to THIS REVIEW, it uses the same SSID for both 2.4 and 5 radios. Also, the router automatically decides which SSID each connecting device should get connected to, and changes which SSID it is connected to automatically as it goes along to better manage available bandwidth, etc.

So, unless there is a secret, hidden way into a place where the user is able to modify the SSIDs, you will NEVER be able to use a BloomSky (or a v1 Chromecast) with this router consistently; i.e. even if you do ever get it connected, there’s no way to know if/when it changes over to the other band (well…except for you’ll notice that it’s not working).

Solution 1:
Find a way into a real admin control panel, and change the SSID of the 2.4 radio.

Solution 2:
Buy a real router; one that allows you modify any and all of the settings that one would normally expect to be able to change in a router’s admin interface.


(Jimmy) #5

IMO the Bloomsky isn’t that important to drop another $200 on a new router. It works great on my normal SSID. I’ll hit up Google to see if there is something different with the Guest SSID.


(ocpd+adhd+alz+md+hfa+fms+lol=me :)) #6

@prjct92eh2
You don’t have to spend that kind of money on a router. A good enough one that will do everything you really need it to do can be found on Amazon, ebay, craigslist for much much less.

In all my gear, I don’t think I have a router that cost me more than $80, and most of them were probably more in the $30-$60 range.

So ya, cost really shouldn’t be the factor that keeps you from having a real router and a super-cool, free weather station that gives your SmartThings system (and/or any other gadgets that can get weather data from the internet) weather data right from your own yard.

Where did you buy the OnHub? If amazon, I would suggest contacting them. If you tell them the real story, it’s possible they will have mercy on you give you a full refund so that you can buy a real router that will actually serve your needs.


(Jimmy) #7

It was Amazon, but a while ago when it first came out. The guest SSID is a new “feature” as of last month, so that’s why i just now got it setup. I did get confirmation from Google Support that the guest SSID has both 2.4 and 5 ghz. They suggested restarting it, so i’ll give that a whirl when I get home.


(Tim Slagle) #8

I use an OnHub and it works just fine :slightly_smiling:

FWIW


(ocpd+adhd+alz+md+hfa+fms+lol=me :)) #9

@slagle
So, with yours, are you able to modify/rename the SSIDs so that they have different names?
If not, how is your BloomSky staying connected to it?


(Tim Slagle) #10

No.

You have to do a factory reset to do that


(ocpd+adhd+alz+md+hfa+fms+lol=me :)) #11

I don’t understand. What does any of this have to do with a factory reset?

The problem in this case is that, since the OnHub uses the same name for both the 2.4 and 5GHz SSIDs, a 2.4GHz-only device (in this case, the BloomSky) either can’t connect, or has trouble staying connected, because it can’t tell whether it’s connecting to a 2.4 or a 5GHz network (same deal with v1 Chromecast; it may connect initially, but then, if the router decides it could be better served by the other SSID, it will change it over to the other one, and the 2.4-only device will lose connectivity).


(Tim Slagle) #12

This is way off topic, if you want to talk about this PM me


(Jimmy) #13

I think we are confusing SSID with frequency. To clarify, you CAN name the SSID’s differently (i.e. SSID=prjct92eh2 and SSID = prjct92eh2 Guests). What you CAN’T do is assign a frequency to each SSID. Both SSID’s get both 2.4 and 5 ghz. In my case, my Bloomsky has been working 100% fine on my “normal” ssid.

yeah, maybe a moderator can move the OnHub discussion to the existing OnHub thread? sorry to gunk the Bloomsky thread up.


(ocpd+adhd+alz+md+hfa+fms+lol=me :)) #14

I’m sorry, but I disagree (move these posts to another thread is fine with me, but this is definitely the place to troubleshoot BloomSky…at least until the troubleshooters figure out that it is not actually a BloomSky issue. In this case, I think you’re right at this point).

This thread is for the BloomSky Weather Station.
This person is having trouble with their BloomSky Weather Station connecting to their home WiFi network.
So, I’m offering assistance in their troubleshooting process.

Again, I’m confused.


(ocpd+adhd+alz+md+hfa+fms+lol=me :)) #15

Yes. There is definitely confusion.

When you give different names to the REGULAR WiFi network and the GUEST WiFi network, you’re not actually naming the specific frequencies, but just the general ‘network’ (which, in this case, forces you to use whatever name you give it for BOTH the 2.4 and the 5GHz frequencies).

So, you end up with two sets of frequencies, like this…

SSID1 has both 2.4GHz and 5GHz WiFi networks

and

SSID2 has both 2.4GHz and 5GHz WiFi networks

That IS the problem here. If you can’t isolate the frequencies like in any normal router, you most likely won’t have good success with 2.4-only devices.


(Benji) #16

Having the SSID the same for 2.4GHz and 5GHz isn’t an issue, this is exactly what I do on my Ubiquiti UAP-AC and it’s not an issue for 2.4GHz only devices… because 2.4GHz only devices can’t see the 5GHz network… because they only have a 2.4GHz radio…


(ocpd+adhd+alz+md+hfa+fms+lol=me :)) #17

Sorry, but that is not universally true.
I have tested this type of scenario (attempting to use a 2.4GHz-only device on a WiFi network that has both 2.4 & 5GHz radios’ SSIDs named exactly the same) extensively (in multiple home WiFi environments, and with multiple v1 Chromecasts, on many types of hardware).

Regardless of what your training may tell you, sometimes, a 2.4-only device WILL connect to a 5GHz network (this is EXACTLY what the v1 Chromecast would do, and it only takes a moment to mess everything up). Furthermore, sometimes when it happens, the 2.4-only device basically loses connectivity, and you have to reset it and try again…and sometimes, again…and again.

It doesn’t mean that it’s not possible to get a 2.4-only device to connect to the proper band when they’re named the same. It just means that it’s possible that you’ll have similar trouble to what’s been discussed above.

The mere fact that it is POSSIBLE is why I will never again have a situation in any network that I am responsible for where different frequency range WiFi bands’ SSIDs are the same.


(Michael Hess) #18

I’d venture that’s not exactly accurate either. The 2.4Ghz radio in a device has absolutely no knowledge of a 5Ghz band, it physically can’t communicate at that frequency. What MAY be happening in your situation is the AP sees a better signal at the 5Ghz band and sends a disconnect to the 2.4Ghz device to try and get it to flip to the 5Ghz. I don’t know if that’s even in the 802.11 specs, just speculation on my part.

The reason I say not to have the same SSID on both bands is for the exact opposite issue. A 5Ghz device will start flapping between bands depending on which it perceives as having a better signal, that causes drops (obviously) as it tries to roam between the bands, and can affect other devices on the 2.4Ghz band when it drops to that. The 2.4Ghz band has many standards running on it, covering 15 years of device’s, they don’t all play well. Like a 802.11b radio joining will KILL the performance of G and N. G doesn’t support as many clients as effectively as N. If all your stuff is N on 2.4 and N or AC on 5, you probably won’t notice many issues if both SSID’s are the same, implicit and explicit beamforming prevent a lot of co-population issues, but throwing B or G into that mix…

Also not all devices will auto connect back to a previous SSID/AP quickly or sometimes at all if they have a poor network implementation. This is where a wifi device just…dies…and you can’t figure out why, but a reboot of the device brings it back online.


(Benji) #19

I don’t want to turn this into an argument. I don’t have “training” I’m doing this right now, both my Ubiquiti UAP-AC access points are using the same SSID for both of their 2.4 and 5GHz radios, no issue and I have plenty of 2.4GHz devices only with a mix of G/N (2.4 only and dual)/AC devices in my network with absolutely zero issues.

Additionally…

This. How can a radio, that ONLY works at 2.4GHz see a 5GHz frequency? It can’t.


(ocpd+adhd+alz+md+hfa+fms+lol=me :)) #20

All I know is what I (and many others) have experienced.
It DOES happen.
It IS predictable.
It IS reliably reproducible.
Exactly how or why I guess I don’t know.

So, unless it has been fixed or something, if you have a v1 Chromecast, and try to connect it to a WiFi router that has both 2.4 and 5GHz SSIDs named exactly the same, there is a high likelihood (i.e. not saying it always happens, but just that it’s highly likely) that you will experience problems. Not all people have seen it on theirs, but many have. I suspect the difference in experience may be the sophistication level of the WiFi hardware you are using.

As for whether or not a 2.4-only device can see or connect to (even momentarily) a 5GHz SSID, I now have your arguments to put up against the explanation I received from Google Support about how their v1 Chromecast device works.

They told me that, if it is on a network that has a 2.4 and a 5GHz network, and the SSIDs for both are exactly the same, this problem can happen.

Well, since it WAS happening, and since the manufacturer DID tell me directly that this is what could be going on, and then I changed the name of one of the two SSIDs and the problem went away, I guess, for now, unless or until someone can somehow prove to me that it can’t happen, this will continue to be my understanding of why it was happening (in every case I have witnessed in person).

Thanks. :slight_smile:

p.s. I’m tempted to send a WiFi router to prjct92eh2 just to prove the point. Of course, they could just take it to a tech savvy friend’s house and see how it does or doesn’t connect there too. :slight_smile: