V2 Hub and Matter?

The point is that right now there is often no way to add a device to a second ecosystem. Or only a really clunky way using an intermediary. For example, the Eve smart plug could only be used with HomeKit before. Now you’ll be able to use it with smartthings if you want to. And adding it to a second ecosystem will be simple. So that’s the “working together“ part.

Some companies are going even further. Smartthings and Google have a partnership where when you add it to one it will be automatically available to be added to the other with a pop up confirmation. (I’m not sure of all the details on that one, my understanding is that it’s going to work a little differently for galaxy phones than for everybody else.)

But the main thing is just the ability to buy something at the store with the matter logo, and bring it home, knowing it will work with what you already have.

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Thanks, yes I was a field tech for Samsung many moons ago and jumped on the Galaxy Note train but I’m not all that impressed with the Smart Tags or the find feature or the charger, I still think the charger was an odd choice for something you’re going to stuff in a closet in the middle of your house.

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I think Samsung’s intention is for this to sit on a kitchen counter, or a table in the entryway, or an end table in the living room, or even the nightstand of a millennial’s apartment. Not hidden away. Put it first where you would put a phone charger. Use the scene button and use it to find your galaxy earbuds. And add some Matter devices to the smartthings account You set up when you set up your Samsung smart television. :sunglasses:

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But with the caveat that you have to have a Matter capable controller already. There will be many in my situation (or similar):

  • First Gen Echo Show
  • Second Gen Echo Dot
  • ST Wi-Fi (Plume) Hub
  • 2018 Samsung Family Hub w/o Dongle
  • Samsung Q90T TV (2018?)

First two devices will never support Matter. Not clear if the last three will or won’t. Stronger chance that adding a dongle to the fridge might get me there, assuming they upgrade the fridge firmware beyond 42.7. That, in theory, would add Thread support through the dongle as well as a TBR. Slim chance the Wi-Fi hub will, but that only gets Matter over Wi-Fi, no TBR. So, for someone in my situation, if none of those devices pan out, the ST Station starts to look like a viable and attractive option.

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Maybe but for the Zigbee part of it, I would still put it in the middle of my house for the mesh.

True, and it is cheap. I just wanted it because I like new toys :blush:

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Sure, me too. (Although not in a closet.) but I’m pretty sure the Zigbee part is just because there are still smartthings-branded Zigbee devices. It wouldn’t surprise me to see future generations of the station drop that once there are thread versions of the smartthings sensors and smart plug.

All my stuff has to be hidden from the wife or she will freak out :smiley:

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Wait, so the “generate code for another system” (secondary code to add to another system) is not the multi-admin part? Or that Google-Samsung deal would make it easier?

It is, but let’s back up a minute and establish some basics for matter.

“Multi admin” in Matter does NOT mean that a matter - certified device gets automatically added to every matter-compatible platform you have in your home when you add it to one of them. For one thing, you might not want to add it to all platforms.

Instead, multi admin is an architecture definition, which says that the same device can receive matter commands from multiple platforms. Technically, it can be commissioned on more than one platform at a time.

If you’re familiar with the Philips hue hub, that’s how that works. You can add it to Smartthings, to hubitat, to HomeKit, to vera, and it will exchange messages with all of them. It doesn’t care how many platforms it gets added to.

But that just has to do with the messages that are transmitted once everything is set up.

COMISSIONING: adding a new device. 3 methods in Matter

there’s still an initial step, called “commissioning” in matter, which gives the platform information about the device and tells the device that it’s OK to accept communications from that specific platform.

And in most cases, you still have to do that one platform at a time.

comissioning method 1: “manual,” one platform at a time

Most of the time, you will set up a Matter device in the first platform. That platform that has information about the device. Then you go to the second platform and have it request permission to talk to the matter device. That request will go through the original platform. End result: both platforms can talk to the same device. That’s “multi admin control.”

Exactly how the commissioning step happens for the second platform can vary a little bit, but it’s supposed to look exactly the same to the end-user. And most commonly the first platform will generate a QR code for the device that you then just have to scan into the second platform, and everything else happens behind the scenes.

OK, that’s the standard manual process.

comissioning method 2: automatic local discovery

But we already know that some platforms, particularly the voice assistants, can automatically discover some devices if they share the same Network. That’s the “Alexa, discover new devices“ process.

Matter does allow for that option as well for some devices.

comissioning method 3: two companies agree by contract to share their device information

A third method allows for two companies to agree to share their matter information automatically. So far SmartThings has an agreement of this type with Google home, and says it’s working on one with Alexa.

So the two platforms will share the list of matter devices that they already know about and then you select from that list to commission it to the partner platform. You don’t need the individual QR codes.

This is made possible by multi admin control, but it is not itself multi admin control, it’s built on top of that.

(So far the announcements have only mentioned galaxy devices, by the way. )

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Wow that’s a very in depth look on onboarding mechanism, you’re a gem!

I see this sentence: “When you open the SmartThings app, any Matter-enabled devices already set up with Google Home will be made available to add to SmartThings and vice versa.” Which might be interpreted as SmartThings app having this easy onboarding feature functionality and not requiring a Galaxy phone. Of course I may be wrong but here’s hoping😅

This does fascinates me, as you said, quite like Hue integration (don’t know with other platforms but LAN integration with SmartThings). Except changing ZigBee to WiFi/Thread protocol then to IP. Perhaps hue is the founding member of this implementation :joy:

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Except that sentence is in the third paragraph and the following is in the first paragraph

Samsung has revealed details about how Matter smart home devices will work on its Samsung Galaxy phones and tablets.

So read in context, so far it has only been announced for Galaxy devices.

There are quite a few SmartThings app features already which are only available for Galaxy users (Find is an obvious example, but so are routines triggered by NFC tags), so I don’t think we’ll know for sure until the feature is released. :thinking:

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Are you saying routine action (previously Bixby routine) from Galaxy devices? If so you can do so much more different triggers than just NFC tags😁

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This is literally what happens already in both Alexa app and Google home. At least in my house. I’ve actually turned off the ability in Google because I don’t use any of their voice products. I’m all in with Alexa.
So what will be different? SmartThings and Alexa work seamlessly together.
I realize your comment was an example, but I’m specifically talking about Amazon and Google. I can’t see how Matter will add anything that isn’t already there.

If you like Alexa, I’d suggest trading in the dot and getting a Gen4 Echo. It has a hub and is supposed to support Matter and I think Thread. It will probably be a better option than adding a dongle.

I’m not sure “seamless” is the word I’d use, but if they do get a similar arrangement with alexa, I believe there will be two differences

  1. just this week, people who had their GE fan switches automatically migrated to the new stock edge driver found that they lost the ability to have Alexa set the fan to medium speed. Since matter capabilities are all pre-defined and standardized, regardless of brand/model, stuff like that, shouldn’t happen anymore for matter-certified devices. If it works, it works, and it works in the same way whether you are using Alexa or Google assistant or Siri.

  2. (this is a big one, but it’s also one I’m not sure of)

At present, the Alexa/SmartThings integration is all or nothing. You can’t individually select devices to be voice controlled or not. If I understand the new smartthings announcement, it may be possible that in the future, you will be able to hide individual matter devices from the voice assistant by not selecting them for commissioning. But I don’t know that for sure and we will have to wait to see the details.

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So I think we’ll just have to wait to see if the new method is in fact, different or not.

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You can scratch this off because I’m already hearing about manufacturer’s that will not be including full capabilities in Matter so the device can be used across platforms. Things like contact sensors that have temperature will not have temp available through Matter. In other words, only the devices main functions. Associated groups is a big one that I’m hearing won’t be available through Matter. So it’s back to community drivers. This is why I had no problems with Alexa controlling my GE fan switches.

Yes, we will just have to wait and see.

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Thanks for the suggestion. Don’t think I need another Alexa device in the house (4 already :slight_smile:). I’m more likely to get a ST Station.

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And surprise, surprise…came home from a trip last night to find that my Samsung Family Hub fridge was asking me to upgrade to 45.11 to support Matter. Bummer I left my Tapo switch at the other house and they aren’t available on Amazon now until mid-March to mid-April. Will report more in the Matter topic once I have another Matter Wi-Fi device and a fridge dongle that will hopefully support Thread.

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I think this goes to the heart of the original post, and it definitely goes to the heart of my problem. I wanted to try a new Matter device so I bought a Nest Hub Gen 2 that includes a thread router. (I would have preferred a ST V3, if only there was an easy migration route.) Commissioning the device to the Nest Hub was straightforward, but I’ll be darned if I can find any way to now associate it with my ST V2. I’ve searched in all the menus for the Nest Hub and I find nothing about a QR code or an associated (32 digit, I think) code. Google Nest Hub Community support has been worthless. And I also don’t see any kind of automatic linking as implied in option 3.

So far, Matter/Thread has been a very frustrating experience…