Upgrade from v1 hub to v2 hub - migration process?

Meh … that’s kinda like asking SmartThings to “cry wolf” (or whatever metaphor makes sense). SmartThings is getting more careful not to promise specific new features and certainly not timelines for them. And I prefer it that way until they’ve improved their batting average.

The reason I emphasize that the CEO and official SmartThings Twitter made unqualified promises to have migration “by the end of the year” is not to take pleasure in the fact they missed that date; it’s to remind everyone that giving any estimated delivery dates (or even detail promised features…) in this industry is something that should be done very conservatively.

Some consumers make their purchase decisions based on these promises; and the adage of “under promise / over deliver” is one that I personally follow. That has it’s own risk – if you can’t promise a certain feature, then some sales will be lost; but in the long run it is much more important to establish a solid reputation. Why did the CEO make such an optimistic prediction for the conversion tool? Was it just a genuine desire to placate customers who really could benefit from a feature that we all wish existed at launch date? Was it overconfidence in his company? I’m tired of good intentions – sure, everyone slips up from time to time, but I won’t shy away from saying “I told you so” in this situation. I too into account the risks associated with this massive platform overhaul and figured if they didn’t manage to build migration in the several months prior to release, then the next 4 months weren’t likely to complete the job, particular with the inevitable resource concentration required to shake out the bugs.


The problem, Bruce, is that, as far as I understand, even Hub V2 to Hub V2 migrations also involve the exact same cumbersome effort. That means that individual Hub V2 failures (hardware, corrupt firmware, or accidental damage) will be extremely frustrating to those unlucky Customers. Sure, SmartThings can put forward excellent customer service and “overnight” a replacement hub; but this won’t impress for long when the customer realizes they need to invest up to several hours or more to do their configuration from scratch (including device association and redoing every SmartApp configuration).

And there eventually will be a Hub “V3” too, once again punishing those who upgrade with a bunch of manual reconfiguration effort … Gosh darning, the migration problem is solvable (I know, folks are tired of hearing me say it). Well, I find it hard to just stand by and not consider the ways this could be handled. :confounded:

The percentage of total customers who are “upgrading” from one hub to another is small, and not important in the grand scheme of things. It’s a cost of doing business.

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At the moment, sure… Hub V1 had a relatively small Customer base, certainly compared to the eventual “millions” of Hub V2 and beyond.

But depending on the magnitude of improvement between Hub V2 and Hub V3 (and, as mentioned, the failure rates of Hub V2 for various reasons), migration will increase in importance over time. I guess they’ll cross that bridge when they get to it. Just, IMHO, dealing with the little footbridge now would be a really good proof-of-concept and set a really good precedent.

I contend that, for “well equipped and very automated home” (which should become the goal for a larger and larger portion of customers), the effort to setup, configuration, and SmartApp (rules, etc.) will grow exponentially and “costs” me much more than the equipment.

And, goshdarnit, one of the ubiquitous benefits of “cloud computing” is the elimination of migration effort for many products these days: Chrome browser and Chromebooks require zero configuration to migrate or sync from one hardware to another; even Windows finally added this ability (well, 80% or so?) to Windows 8.x+; and similarly with Android, iOS, etc… Buying a new PC is really much less onerous than in the past when one had to dig up all the software installation CDs, license keys, preference settings, etc…

So I think consumers reasonably expect the same from SmartThings – especially since they know it is cloud based. Really ironic, despite so difficult technical challenges involved.

I was told in December it would be ready by the end of the year. Obviously, it was not. I got this reply yesterday from their team:

“We still have developers working on the migration tool, but it is a bit more complex than they first realized. They have not released a timeline for when it will be released, but still hope to get it in customers hands at some point down the road.”

So “at some point” you may be able to migrate I guess…

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I also don’t think you will see this tool anytime soon. As for hub 2 to hub 2 transfer. They will ask you to hookup the hub and migrate it through the cloud. Make more sense that way in term of support and other priorities.

What?!

“Migration through the Cloud” is no more, and no less, possible with a Hub V2 to replacement Hub V2, than from Hub V1 to Hub V2.

Both models of Smart Hub use the cloud as the primary data store, except for the low level ZigBee and Z-Wave controller network association.

And what developer or developers are working on it?

This is only lip service. Reality is no one is working on it.

It’s now been nearly a full year since SmartThings was aware of the requirement to migrate from one Hub model to the next. This simply hasn’t been made a priority. It is no more complex now than it was when Hub V2 was announced (or when Hub V1 to V1 replacements were/are required due to hardware failure).

Still don’t get your point. Is it because it needs someone there to push switches? It’s obvious I don’t know much about IOT but you figure ST can clone the whole Hub over to a new one. Are the paired devices store somewhere inside a hub’s storage memory without a way for an Admin to clone over to a new hub?

Correct … and Correct.

There are folks that can (and have already many, many times in this Forum) give a detailed explanation; …

but briefly and “roughly”: both ZigBee and Z-Wave, for security reasons exchange keys with the controller chip that are unique to that hardware chip and a device cannot be moved from one controller chip to another without repeating the “add device” process. Z-Wave has a method for one controller to handoff the network to another controller, but I believe that ZigBee does not. SmartThings’s controller may or may not be capable of the Z-Wave handoff.


The Smart Cloud portion is an entirely different problem and, shouldn’t be, as you observe, any problem at all. SmartThings has full control over an Account’s data (i.e., all the “Device Objects”) and could easily adjust their references in bulk to point to the new Hub and/or new Location, thus completely eliminating the need to manually labeling the Things on the new Hub and the need to reconfigure or reinstall any SmartApps, rules, SHM conditions, etc…

IMHO, the value of implementing the above paragraph would still be significant, even if manual intervention is required for the “hardware / network” transfer of the devices. A web based UI that shows the devices migrating from one hub to the other that asks the user to confirm the device has been moved and then updates all the internal cloud references seems feasible to me, and would perhaps save 50% to 80% of the effort.

Solving the hardware / network transfer is considerably more complex due to the constraints of the underlying protocols. Yet SmartThings refuses to consider the value of offering a partial solution.

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Is this migration tool still in the works? I am hesitant to upgrade to V2 because it will probably be an entire day of work to do so and that’s just daunting without such a tool to assist.

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I have the same question. Bought the $99 deal for the new V2 hub + 2 sensors about 6 months ago, but I haven’t even opened up the new hub box yet. Wish we could get some “official” updates about this possible migration tool!

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I just went through this migration a couple of weeks ago. There is no tool, nor is there likely to be one. Even if there were a tool, the lion’s share of the effort is resetting and re-including individual devices to the new hub. That takes hours.

Some hints if you decide to do it: Do not even touch your existing location, devices, or SmartApps; simply unplug your V1 hub. Create a new location, and install you V2 hub to the new location. As you build the new hub, simple reset (zigbee) or exclude (z-wave) each device as you go, working out from the center. When you want to redo your SmartApps, they are still there in your old location for reference.

When you’re all finished, the old location can be deleted, most likely with help from Support. Don’t worry about that, as it will not affect your new setup.

It took me about 12 hours of effort over two days, 140 devices, 95 SmartApps.

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OMG… this is exactly why I DO NOT want to do this. I guess I will just keep using the V1 hub until it dies. I only have 32 devices but…

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Since I’m retired I could easily play around with this migration for days (or even weeks, ST’s is mainly a hobby for me). But I always try to do things the easy way & try to keep the “boss/WAF” happy.

I do have a Aeon minimote, will that make this process easier? I’ve briefly read some posts about the minimote helping.

Any hints on how to use the minimote to speed up this migration process would be helpful. The less time this migration takes means the more time I can spend by my pool drinking beer & giving my grand dogs their hourly belly rubs.

For z-wave devices, they either need to be excluded from the old hub, which a Minimote is a great tool for, or they need to be factory reset, for which the Minimote is irrelevant.

I used the Minimote to exclude a few devices, where that was just the easiest thing to do. For the vast majority of my devices I did a factory reset, because I’ve learned the hard way with Leviton devices that that is the best method.

I did not use the Minimote to include devices, although this is possible. I just used the mobile app, and I was patient for the added device to show up. If it didn’t show up when I expected, I force-killed the mobile app and restarted it. Often, the device did include and is then found under Devices to Configure. To do otherwise can create huge problems down the road, with phantom z-wave devices that mess up your system. Patience during inclusion, and being super careful about inclusion, is essential to a good outcome.

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Has there been any change to this process? I’m very tempted to pick up a V2 hub while it’s on sale, but I just can not fathom the process of moving from V1 to V2 and basically rewinding all I’ve done just to re-do it again.

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Nope. Nothing. I feel your pain and at this point I am waiting for a v3 or another product to come along that is worth the pain. V2 has underdelivered and there is very little incentive to go through a lengthy migration process.

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So with the big price drops, are we expecting hub v3 to be released soon, or is the market dictating that they drop the price to remain competitive?

I just discovered this thread after starting a new one on the topic of SmartThings killed my hub and now I must move everything and bury the old one: Migrating to a new hub

OMG I do not want to go through my 100 device migration.

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