I believe that I’d read there wasn’t initially a device migration/conversion utility when switching to the new hub version but that it was planned for the “end of the year”. Since it is the end of the year now I was wondering if there was a migration/upgrade utility or process - other than manually and individually unregestering/reregistering each device and resetting up every smarapp, etc.?
I bet it will be several months out, you can take the process of removing and adding to the v2 hub as a way of cleaning up your environment.
Consider it just another empty promise from SmartThings (stated by their CEO no less).
Happy New Year!
Well, I can understand that it may need to shift a bit as migration, especially with “outside” developed code in the mix. Also, it seems like the priority has been to get a full set of features in the v2 environment first - pretty much needed to be able to upgrade, too.
It would be nice to get an update on a current expected eta, though.
Wondering if I should just go for it and hook up my V2 hub that I’ve had for 3 months. I’ve been very pleased with my V1 hub with a variety of 30 devices. I would consider myself a ST novice.
But santa brought me some new toys, mainly a smart cam HD Pro, and I see that needs the V2 hub to integrate. Also a minimote V1 (understand that’s suppose to make migration easier) and 5 other new things to hook up.
I study this site everyday, but first time asking a question. Hope I did this right.
Any hints or suggestions would be appreciated.
There is no expected eta, there will probably be no update. My own bet is that it never happens at all. There are too few hub v1 customers for this to be a top priority. They have bigger problems on their plate.
So what is the best suggested way of converting?
- Setup new hub as a different location
- Use Minimote (I have the black one - v2) to unregister a device
- Reregister the device in v2 hub and recreate all smartapps
I’ll probably have to do a room or action set at a time over several days. I’m assuming that both hubs can run in parallel, right?
Also, I have:
motion senors - aeon and smartthings
Door sensors - aeon gen 5
Door Locks: Schlage
Tilt sensors - can’t remember the brand off hand
Switches - Leviton, aeon micro
outlets - mainly leviton, but a few smartthings
Are these all supported enough to even attempt to start upgrading yet?
I am waiting for my Hub v1 to die or reach end of life support before I go through the unnecessary pain of migrating dozens of switches, 40 smartapps/rules, etc for the little benefit that v2 has to offer today.
If that day ever comes, there might be a better solution out on the market besides Smartthings anyway
Meh … that’s kinda like asking SmartThings to “cry wolf” (or whatever metaphor makes sense). SmartThings is getting more careful not to promise specific new features and certainly not timelines for them. And I prefer it that way until they’ve improved their batting average.
The reason I emphasize that the CEO and official SmartThings Twitter made unqualified promises to have migration “by the end of the year” is not to take pleasure in the fact they missed that date; it’s to remind everyone that giving any estimated delivery dates (or even detail promised features…) in this industry is something that should be done very conservatively.
Some consumers make their purchase decisions based on these promises; and the adage of “under promise / over deliver” is one that I personally follow. That has it’s own risk – if you can’t promise a certain feature, then some sales will be lost; but in the long run it is much more important to establish a solid reputation. Why did the CEO make such an optimistic prediction for the conversion tool? Was it just a genuine desire to placate customers who really could benefit from a feature that we all wish existed at launch date? Was it overconfidence in his company? I’m tired of good intentions – sure, everyone slips up from time to time, but I won’t shy away from saying “I told you so” in this situation. I too into account the risks associated with this massive platform overhaul and figured if they didn’t manage to build migration in the several months prior to release, then the next 4 months weren’t likely to complete the job, particular with the inevitable resource concentration required to shake out the bugs.
The problem, Bruce, is that, as far as I understand, even Hub V2 to Hub V2 migrations also involve the exact same cumbersome effort. That means that individual Hub V2 failures (hardware, corrupt firmware, or accidental damage) will be extremely frustrating to those unlucky Customers. Sure, SmartThings can put forward excellent customer service and “overnight” a replacement hub; but this won’t impress for long when the customer realizes they need to invest up to several hours or more to do their configuration from scratch (including device association and redoing every SmartApp configuration).
And there eventually will be a Hub “V3” too, once again punishing those who upgrade with a bunch of manual reconfiguration effort … Gosh darning, the migration problem is solvable (I know, folks are tired of hearing me say it). Well, I find it hard to just stand by and not consider the ways this could be handled.
The percentage of total customers who are “upgrading” from one hub to another is small, and not important in the grand scheme of things. It’s a cost of doing business.
At the moment, sure… Hub V1 had a relatively small Customer base, certainly compared to the eventual “millions” of Hub V2 and beyond.
But depending on the magnitude of improvement between Hub V2 and Hub V3 (and, as mentioned, the failure rates of Hub V2 for various reasons), migration will increase in importance over time. I guess they’ll cross that bridge when they get to it. Just, IMHO, dealing with the little footbridge now would be a really good proof-of-concept and set a really good precedent.
I contend that, for “well equipped and very automated home” (which should become the goal for a larger and larger portion of customers), the effort to setup, configuration, and SmartApp (rules, etc.) will grow exponentially and “costs” me much more than the equipment.
And, goshdarnit, one of the ubiquitous benefits of “cloud computing” is the elimination of migration effort for many products these days: Chrome browser and Chromebooks require zero configuration to migrate or sync from one hardware to another; even Windows finally added this ability (well, 80% or so?) to Windows 8.x+; and similarly with Android, iOS, etc… Buying a new PC is really much less onerous than in the past when one had to dig up all the software installation CDs, license keys, preference settings, etc…
So I think consumers reasonably expect the same from SmartThings – especially since they know it is cloud based. Really ironic, despite so difficult technical challenges involved.
I was told in December it would be ready by the end of the year. Obviously, it was not. I got this reply yesterday from their team:
“We still have developers working on the migration tool, but it is a bit more complex than they first realized. They have not released a timeline for when it will be released, but still hope to get it in customers hands at some point down the road.”
So “at some point” you may be able to migrate I guess…
I also don’t think you will see this tool anytime soon. As for hub 2 to hub 2 transfer. They will ask you to hookup the hub and migrate it through the cloud. Make more sense that way in term of support and other priorities.
“Migration through the Cloud” is no more, and no less, possible with a Hub V2 to replacement Hub V2, than from Hub V1 to Hub V2.
Both models of Smart Hub use the cloud as the primary data store, except for the low level ZigBee and Z-Wave controller network association.
And what developer or developers are working on it?
This is only lip service. Reality is no one is working on it.
It’s now been nearly a full year since SmartThings was aware of the requirement to migrate from one Hub model to the next. This simply hasn’t been made a priority. It is no more complex now than it was when Hub V2 was announced (or when Hub V1 to V1 replacements were/are required due to hardware failure).
Still don’t get your point. Is it because it needs someone there to push switches? It’s obvious I don’t know much about IOT but you figure ST can clone the whole Hub over to a new one. Are the paired devices store somewhere inside a hub’s storage memory without a way for an Admin to clone over to a new hub?
Correct … and Correct.
There are folks that can (and have already many, many times in this Forum) give a detailed explanation; …
but briefly and “roughly”: both ZigBee and Z-Wave, for security reasons exchange keys with the controller chip that are unique to that hardware chip and a device cannot be moved from one controller chip to another without repeating the “add device” process. Z-Wave has a method for one controller to handoff the network to another controller, but I believe that ZigBee does not. SmartThings’s controller may or may not be capable of the Z-Wave handoff.
The Smart Cloud portion is an entirely different problem and, shouldn’t be, as you observe, any problem at all. SmartThings has full control over an Account’s data (i.e., all the “Device Objects”) and could easily adjust their references in bulk to point to the new Hub and/or new Location, thus completely eliminating the need to manually labeling the Things on the new Hub and the need to reconfigure or reinstall any SmartApps, rules, SHM conditions, etc…
IMHO, the value of implementing the above paragraph would still be significant, even if manual intervention is required for the “hardware / network” transfer of the devices. A web based UI that shows the devices migrating from one hub to the other that asks the user to confirm the device has been moved and then updates all the internal cloud references seems feasible to me, and would perhaps save 50% to 80% of the effort.
Solving the hardware / network transfer is considerably more complex due to the constraints of the underlying protocols. Yet SmartThings refuses to consider the value of offering a partial solution.