Status of Hub Replacement Tool?

Yah… I had this observation since … well, since I had to swap out my defective original V1 hub about 2 or 3 months after getting it due to cold solder joint on the USB power plug. It was overnighted to me – super customer support; but I noticed that migration of my configuration had no automation and I saw the red flags. This was 3 years ago.

Well what I am going to do might seem odd, but I am going to do the following to make it easier.

  1. Create new Location My location now is called HOME I will call the new location HOME 1
  2. Add all my Device types by copying from HOME IDE to HOME 1 IDE
  3. Do the same for my Smart Apps
  4. Remove one device then reset it and Pair with new location HOME 1
  5. Continue one at a time until all done. Of course I will configure and add to rooms as I go
  6. I am not sure if the standard Routines will be added by default to HOME 1, if not add them.

I know it won’t be easy, but I have no choice.

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thats how i did it with my RMA

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Do you have to re-configure all of your Smartapps if you do it this method? For example, I have 20 rules in Rule Machine. Do you need to re-program all of them? Or do they carry over once you’ve associated them with your new location?

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I would envision a general feature would be the means to serialize all the SmartApp (and possibly device) configuration to some plain text form (XML, JSON, etc), and some way to deserialize/reload that data into a different (or even same) hub/location/etc. This obviously wouldn’t work for Z-wave/Zigbee pairing, but I think this is sort of the 90% approach mentioned above.

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I actually think once I make the new location in the ST app I will have to copy the device handlers and smart apps to the IDE for the new location. I really not sure how that is done on the IDE. I hope to use the same password and username and just log on but once on how do you see the second location, is what I am not sure about.

I am not sure if the rule Machine stores the rule on the iPhone or on the iDE or maybe in the HUB, these are things that are unclear to me as to what is on the hub locally and what is remote on the ST IDE.

Practically nothing is stored in the Hub… Just the network keys and a temporary copy of your configuration of Smart Light and SHM.

All data is in SmartThings Cloud. It would be trivial for them to move Device names and SmartApp configurations from one Location/Hub data object to another, but they have not offered this. Only the low level network-hub association is hard due to security protocol issues.

“Seralizing” the data for export import is one way to do this, but unnecessary, since the data is not moving from one cloud to another.

Custom SmartApp definitions (and Device Type Handler definitions) are stored above the Location object and thus are already installable on your new Location/Hub… Unfortunately all the configuration data does not transfer. That includes all the various complex rules you may have built with Rule Machine, Smart Lighting, and SmartTiles dashboards, etc…

@ObyCode has import / export for SmartRules, but I’m not sure if it handles location migration yet.

If it were easy and only took a few people, I assure you this would already be done because of this…

So are we. That is why we are working on a migration tool and would be even if everyone manually moved to hub v2. We still need to be able to replace a hub without a teardown.

Backup/Restore tool for SmartApps will arrive before a full migration tool.

I truly do understand all of your desire for this tool and want it out just as bad as you do. I have moved twice since owning SmartThings and have torn apart and rebuilt my setup more times than that.


That’s a good foundation for a full migration tool, so it’s a logical first step.

If migration of the back-end data association from one Location to another (i.e., Rooms and SmartApp associations) is “not easy”, then I’m assuming there is a serious problem with the design of SmartThings data model.

The “problem” with having 3+ years exposure to the product and forum and development tools, etc., is that I believe it is reasonable to make assumptions about the database design. Data migration comprises the largest specialty period my career.

It’s gotten to the point where the only response we get is “it’s hard”:

  • hub migration (even partially to accommodate device swap or SmartApp settings migration) is hard.
  • scheduling is hard.
  • keeping mobile Apps in parity is hard.
  • adding capabilities is hard.
  • approving SmartApps is hard.

We get it… Building, executing, and refining SmartThings is hard… But if it is so hard, are Hagins and Hawkinson unaware of how hard it really is? Because when they spoke to us in September, both implied that a whole bunch of deferred features would be rolled out in the next couple of months (those were the exact timeframes mentioned … e.g., Hagins confidently said there would be more local executions in Hub V2 in November 2015, and more in January 2016 – neither happened; and we already know what totally unqualified time frame Hawkins set for hub migration tool; which actually seemed possible because that tool could have been started in January 2015 as soon as the new Hub appeared on the horizon.

Whatever, @jody.albritton – I know it’s not fair taking this out on you. Your job – and that of your peers – is hard, but knowing that you’re all working hard (for years) and the solutions remain out of reach is actually becoming a bigger and bigger concern. If these problems are all difficult and remain difficult, then when are things ever going to improve?

If data migration isn’t possible with “just a few people”; then perhaps, just perhaps, SmartThings hasn’t assigned the right “few people”. Or hasn’t given those people the right product and project management, or test resources, or an environment where they are free to explore and express and test out-of-the-box ideas.

Bigger companies than SmartThings have suffered colossal setbacks (or bankruptcy) due to internal truces and unwritten rules that prevented innovative thinking and challenges to legacy policies and procedures, and the hesitancy of hiring people who would challenge the status quo.

I’ll leave it to the reader to decide what is “the status quo” at SmartThings. I can tell you it isn’t “hard” to figure out.


@jody.albritton I am going to create a second location then start transferring first my Smart Apps then my Device Types to the new location. I will leave all of those on the old hub until complete. I then will remove each device one at a time and install at new location. My question is after finished can I rename the new location to that of the old once everything including the location is removed?

No, this is currently just for backing up your rules and re-importing them to the same location. If the devices change, then the rules will not import.

Yes. You can do that.

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Thank you that will make things better. I just realized that two of my sensors I mounted in a way that I can’t get to the reset button so I am hoping I can bend the tip of a paperclip to get in there, otherwise I will have to get some command strips to redo them. The ones in the vaulted ceiling I pulled out the safety belt so I can start climbing. The hub come tomorrow.

I have an entire weekend to myself coming up and I strongly considered doign the migration from v1 to v2 however, this thread talked me out of it again. I just don’t see the real benefits right now and see a lot of pain getting there. I will continue to wait for the migration tool or for my v1 to crash :slightly_smiling:


Yep, I would too if I were you. I switched to ST when v2 came out really Only for local control… Whoops… =(

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@jody.albritton - Is there some timeframe you can give for the tool (or tools if this is a staged release, which I would really love to see)? This thread was not meant to be a “bash ST” thread. I genuinely would like to know when the tool is expected, since we are already half a year since the v2 release. And, like you, my biggest concern is a hub failure. Having been in IT for over 20 years, I know how simple it is for a piece of hardware to fail…even one that has no moving parts! :worried:

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Well last night I did the complete transfer of all devices and apps and Device types, I only had problems with three devices. 1. Everspring Flood Detector, 2. GE Z-Wave Paddle Switch, 3, IRIS Keypad next generation.
The exclusion of the Everspring didn’t want to exclude using z-wave tools same with GE switch, I took the chance and force excluded and reset all. The IRIS keypad refused to repair and took about 1.5 hours of trial and error. Otherwise all went well. Today I have one device which I have to climb ro get to, but that should take about an hour.

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Any word on a Hub replacement assistance tool? My v1 hub power connector just snapped off. Living on borrowed time with a solder patch, need to get the v2 hub up. @slagle do you think this is something we might see anytime soon?

I also see an option to Include or Exclude hub from existing Z-Wave network? Can I somehow use this to replace the hub or add the new hub to the existing Z-Wave network?


Because of the cloud-based multi protocol architecture, SmartThings does not currently support having two ST hubs on the same account “location.” So you can add a vera hub as a zwave secondary to a SmartThings primary, or SmartThings as a zwave secondary to a vera primary, but you cannot add a smartthings hub as a zwave secondary to a smartthings primary.

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So here is a neat little trick I found, if you open a device under “My Devices”, scroll down click on Edit.
Then scroll down and where it says hub, select your “new” hub from the list of options.

VIOLA, the devices has been transferred from my old hub to the new hub.

NOTE: this on my “WiFi” and other non-zWave devices that were added manually. I don’t think this will work with Z-Wave due to inclusion and security etc, but for non Z-Wave it worked like a charm. However do note this will migrate the devices, not the connected SmartApps. No such luck there yet.
You can do this for child devices created by the parent app technically but it will make the parent app still linked to the old hub but the device linked to the new hub, so while it’ll work you’ll need to switch back to the old hub to manage the SmartApp. Get complicated, best to use this for stand alone devices that were manually added (e.g. Foscam cameras)