They show up when you search? You mean the search function on the routines page within the app? One routine I know to be missing is a kitchen routine, but if I search for it, it still doesn’t come up.
@jjmucker I think so… It all seems a bit variable and, tbh, I have not done a detailed check. I’m talking 25+ routines for some devices and have not had the time to sit down and fully work through them. I just know some are missing and that I can see them from the list. Need to confirm with the search…
All very curious. As I mentioned before, Location members can normally see and read Routines, Scenes, Rules created via the API using Personal Access Tokens, and those created with Recipes (I am only aware of Smart Lighting in this category).
The only ones they can’t read are those created with app tokens such as those created in the CLI with the default authentication. I guess there could be something in the SmartThings Labs that also creates Rules, and then there were a few sample apps in Glitch that some users will have played with. Those Rules can only be managed using the apps that created them, though it is possible to detect their presence and know their names and IDs. Indeed you can also determine which devices they work with. You just can’t profile them enough to know where they are hiding (or at least I haven’t discovered how yet).
I then promptly discovered that actually I could read the one example I had available, just by asking to see it.
Interestingly the routines that I can’t see on my app, can be seen on my wife’s phone. And I’m the main account holder. I can’t even see them when I log into MySmarthings and view from there. All very bizarre.
OK @jjmucker I just thought I’d try something - do you, by any chance, have any cameras (or maybe other devices) hidden from the app (room → select devices to use)?
I did, none of which were or have ever been used in routines, rules, scenes or actually anything at all. I just ‘un hid’ them all by selecting to use, they reappeared in the app as expected and… lo and behold… all my ‘missing’ routines reappeared against thier devices as well as the app and AWA lists. AWA rule list went from 249 to 306 entries so 57 were hidden
I had two classes of hidden devices, a never used empty spare v2 hub sitting in a used room and a group of linked account cameras sitting in ‘no room assigned’.
Re-hiding the spare hub had no effect on routine visibility, re-hiding the cameras which took the no room assigned room with them once hidden, also re-hid the routines. Moving the cameras to a used room, also causing no room assigned room to disappear, did not effect routines at all. Hiding the cameras in the room re-hid 57 routines deleting them from the room did not hide routines…
So it would seem that hiding cameras that appear on a device scan automatically from a linked Tapo account causes routines to randomly disappear from devices, app and AWA.
For the moment though, my issue seems fixed - go figure
Ahh, I do actually have some devices hidden but not cameras. But I’m betting that’s the issue. I’ll check now and let you know.
EDIT. ; legend mate. That’s the issue. Seems if you uncheck devices then it affects what you see.
Thanks for even coming up with that idea mate because I’d have never have thought of that.
OK further and more concise update…
I realised one camera was referenced from a routine so fiddled a bit further with a non camera device.
It would appear that hiding ANY device that is referenced in a routine causes routines to go missing but still be executed, regardless of the hidden device being referenced in said routines - the newly hidden device had 3 routines, 57 were hidden.
It is not tied to linked cameras…
Edit: Which @jjmucker , echoes what you just reported
The devices I had hidden were virtual devices and had nothing to do with my missing routines so it looks to me that if you select ANY devices you don’t want to see then routines will go missing, but still execute.
I contacted ST about this issue and they didn’t mention this so they don’t even know about this issue.
Yep but only if the hidden devices have routines themselves maybe (ref. my unused offline spare hub for ex.)?
When you contact SmartThings support, first, you get an AI assistant, then you get general Samsung staff, who are just working from a script. They don’t necessarily know anything about SmartThings. But if you persist, eventually, your ticket will get escalated to an engineer, who can look into it. That’s really all I can suggest.
You are correct that this forum was set up a number of years ago so that customers could help other customers with SmartThings. It’s not an official support channel and it’s not monitored by SmartThings staff except for controlling harassment and spam . And the small section of the forum for assisting developers. So the way to communicate issues like this is through the official support channels, although I know it’s frustrating that it takes so long to get somebody who actually knows the platform.
I have contacted support, referencing this thread & they initially replied asking for screen shots which, given the issue, was not really a realistic option.
I then raised the ticket again, summarising the issue and still referencing the thread but using the full 1000 character allowance and it has been passed ‘to the department in charge’ so hopefully this will get read now more information and a short term work around has been added
I am awaiting a response…
Ironically, I was going to ask about hidden devices earlier but simply couldn’t think why it would make a difference so I didn’t. I should know better than that as there was something else we found a bit odd going on with hidden devices not so long ago.
They are turning into the “hunches” of the mobile app.
Yeah they are used in routines to be fair, but not the ones that were missing. So you’re right.
Just spent a considerable amount of time consolidating older routines, writing new ones and adding and removing physical and viritual devices, as well as hiding a few (cameras included)…
The result, 306 old routines and 306 after all the fiddling around
With no count kept of deleted vs. new this coincidence caused no little amount of double checking!