If you want to know where the load wire is for future reference. Then you can go to box 1 and separate the two black wires. If the the circuit is working normal with the 2 wires separated. Then most likely you load wire to the light is at box 2. You can then cap off both ends of that wires or just tie them together like before. It’s safe in both configurations. Label all the wires so you won’t pull your hair off in the future.
I’m dealing with this as well. I think I’m close. I believe I also have the Option2 situation, and I’m getting stuck with what to do with the GE switch that goes into the middle box. The other 2 boxes are easy enough to just tie the two black wires together and put the red wire (traveler) into the switch. Do I need to do that with this switch and put both red wires into the switch’s traveler port?
To make things more complicated, I have no neutral wire in that middle box. I can’t quite visualize how to “spread the neutral” from one of the other boxes. Any more ideas on how I might understand that better?
You do the exact same connection for both add-on switches. Tie black together, white together and a pigtail from white to your switch neutral. Tie red together and a pigtail to your switch Traveler. It’s a little easier to do it this way but if there is room. You can also skip the pigtail and put both white wires to the switch neutral terminal and both red wire to the switch Traveler.
As for neutral. If you have option 2 wiring as per the drawing on this site. 4 Way Switch Wiring Diagram
Then the white wires are your neutral and should be at all 3 boxes. If you look at the drawing. You can see the bundle called “power source”. This bundle is coming from your circuit breaker panel. That bundle has 3 conductors inside. Black, white and bare copper. Black is your line hot, White is your neutral and bare wire is ground. Looking at the drawing. You can see all the white wires connected together and to the power source white wire, light bulb fixture white wire. The reason why you don’t think you have neutral is probably because the white wires are not connected to any of the switches. They are just connected to each other and tug behind the switches.
Here’s a picture of the existing toggle switch. The switch on the right is the one we care about. The one on the left is a 3-way from a different switch. This is the “middle” 4-way switch.
As you can see, we’ve got 2 whites and 2 reds. No blacks I guess because the electrician thought this would be a hilarious prank. Anyway, I don’t see a neutral bundle in this box like I see in the other two boxes.
I’ve already wired up the other 2 switches for this light - the master and the other add-on, and everything works with those. As long as I leave this switch in the current position, both the master and the other add-on can turn the light on and off. I’m just at a loss as to how to get these 4 wires into this last add-on switch.
I Have Option #1 (Actually the attached picture is more accurate with the blue wire being white) and I’m trying to understand why the switches won’t work. Isn’t all just power flowing through wires that have a different color and you’re either opening or closing the circuit? If it’s true that Option #1 won’t work, what sort of relay module are you suggesting? Thanks in advance!
Are you guessing about the wiring option or by voltage check? The reason I ask is because wiring color could be anything due to no color code and it’s up to the electrician to label them. If you really have option 1 then unfortunately smart switches won’t work but relay module will definitely will work for you. You can get the Aeon lab dimmer version
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00IRI1CEK/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?qid=1465778990&sr=8-4&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=Aeon+lab+micro&dpPl=1&dpID=31seJADBH5L&ref=plSrch
Emerwave zwave plus
Monoprice
I have all 3 versions except my emerwave is not zwave plus. My fav is the Aeon micro. It’s the only one with dimming capability with the ST app and power monitor.
I haven’t metered anything out yet, but my wiring appears to match this example, including just a single wire coming into the third electrical box. Each switch off in a single gang box thankfully!
I’m still not clear on exactly why the switches won’t work for this option. What is it about this setup that causes it to not work?
For the relay module, is that just wired into each electrical box and tucked into the box? Is it just for one switch? Thanks!
What you are missing is the neutral wire going to all the boxes which smart switches need them in order to operate. If you look at the drawing. You will see the neutral wire (white) from your circuit breaker panel ended at the light bulb and the black wire from the light bulb (Load wire) to the boxes.
Excellent, thank you! So in the original Option 1 and 2 pics. Would the neutral wires be the capped pairs in each box? And the standard load be the non-red wire. With red being the traveler.
Also, just wanted to double check for an answer on the relay module suggestion that you mentioned, as far as location and quantity needed. Thanks!
I’ve been trying to follow this discussion, but am completely lost what to do with these new GE switches to get them to wired correctly (and i’m not even sure I have the correct switches)…
I have 1 Relay Switch (model ZW4003) and 2 auxiliary switches (ZW2003). My current wiring setup is almost exactly as show in one of the images linked above:
I disconnected all the existing switches. Then I tested the loose wires one by one and found that only one was hot. However, it’s a white wire that was connected to the Common terminal on the legacy switch. The box with that switch has 2 other switches that are connected to a different circuit. And all the wires connected to the switch come from the same sheathing. Red, Black, White (common), and ground.
Another box has a 4 way switch. Red wires on one side, Black wires on the other. Whites are twisted off together like I see in most diagrams of a 4-way switch. And there are 2 wire sheaths each with black, white, red, ground.
The 3rd box also has 2 wire sheaths. The white wires are twisted off together. But the red and black from one of the sheaths are twisted together and then connected to the switch with a black wire. The red and black from the other feed connect to the switch as well. And ground, of course.
I’m really confused by the first box.
- The hot wire is white. None of the other white wires are connected to anything in the other boxes.
- There is only one set of wires.
- The Auxiliary switches from GE only have 2 terminals, one for traveler and one for neutral. If I try to cap off the common wire (white in this case), doesn’t that mean the whole circuit is dead?
- I assume the relay switch needs to play the 4-way (reds on one side, blacks on the other). What about the neutral? (white in that box?)
Thanks for any tips!
I called GE/Jasko customer support today and this is the diagram they sent me for a 4-way setup. The top image is the standard legacy wiring and the bottom is the Smart Switch setup. I have option 2 and am just pigtailling the load/lines in two boxes to complete the hot and interrupting them with the primary switch. I still need to figure out the travellers as he had them both going into the same connection on the primary switch (there are two holes).
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Your neutral is at the light fixture. Unfortunately, GE switches won’t work without neutral at the switch box.
You have to have a neutral in the switch boxes with these switches. They won’t work without it. The neutral routes each switch back to the panel to complete a circuit for the switch brains even when the lights are off (hot is interrupted).
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I have read that there are some other Z-Wave switches that work without a neutral but I haven’t tried them. The only thing my builder did right was install neutrals in all my switch boxes.
What you can do is use in wall micro relay module and install it at the light fixture box. Aeon, Emerwave or monoprice make them.
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Did this work for you? I have the same config for the pre-z-wave setup. When i setup the first *23 (far left in your diagram) I was inexplicably getting 120V on the red traveler wire at the center location. Still trying to get my head around that as i was expecting voltage on the incoming black/line since I pigtailed at the first location…
No. It is the last one and the load(light bulb) is wired to the load terminal. You have a Traveler terminal and a wire from it goes to both 45610, togather with neutral and ground.
The manual https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0218/7704/files/jasco-ge-45609-Manual-Eng.pdf?16902462342014405727 shows this on page 6.
Just to summarize, 45609 gets Line (hot) neutral, ground and traveler. Each 45610 gets connected to 45609 with neutral, ground and traveler.
Haven’t tried it yet. My wife redirected the switches I bought into the garage so she could use them as motion reaction lights to the Arlo cameras outside . I’ll have to wait until I grab some more to give it a shot.
I do have them working in a 3-way setup though. The common and load in the remote location are tied together and just a neutral and traveler go to the add on switch. Works great.
Thanks so much for posting this diagram. I was stumped until I ran across this. I followed the diagram and it worked perfectly. Thanks!