Hello Home and Sunrise/Sunset

[GSzabados (Gabor Szabados)]

Continuing the discussion from Sunrise/Sunset Setting Not Working:

As @Brad_ST stated in the other topic, Hello Home and the Weather Station app used to installed by the Classic App as default, but it seems to be not happening for many users who start with the new App.

I see a conflicting communication regarding the Limits and Guardrails (Scenes and Automations) FAQ: Limits and Guardrails (max # of automations, devices, etc) and Smart Lighting and other SmartApps. As my understanding the Scenes and Automations would use the “behaviours” what has a limitation (might due to the coming local processing), but if someone uses SmartApps or rule engines like WebCoRe or Sharptools.io that is less limited (only number of SmartApps, calls etc. https://smartthings.developer.samsung.com/docs/rate-limits.html but even these limits seems to be incorrectly listed as some users has seen different values being active, like number of rooms, @jkp).

Anyhow, seeing a lot of new topics popping up from new users who are struggling setting up basic automations I need to ask how is the way forward on the roadmap?

The Hello Home SmartApp is one of the most significant part of many SmartApps, basically for defining through the Weather Station sunrise and sunset, but many relies on it for Mode changes too. But as it is not installed anymore in many cases as default, the functionality of Smart Lighting is limited in many ways. But building Scenes and Automations the same feature is burning quickly the behaviours too.

So what is the current plan, how is this conflict planned to be resolved in the future? I thought that @Brad_ST have done a lot for the community fixing Hello Home SmartApps, but really that is a temporary solution. And as he has pointed out before,

But now you have me questioning how sunrise/sunset automations for Smart Lighting created in the new app would ever work…

How the current SmartApps are going to be supported, when basic features are removed and not replaced yet with equivalent ones?

Tagging some people to start an open discussion on this issue, @blake.arnold, @jody.albritton, @Brad_ST, @slagle

[HA_fanatic (Bob)]

@GSzabados

Tagging some people to start an open discussion on this issue,

These are great questions, but I am afraid that you will get any real answers when @slagle is coming back. And that may be a long time to wait. He hasn’t been around since May of 2018.

[GSzabados (Gabor Szabados)]

@HA_fanatic, Thanks! I haven’t went through all the posts. I see. My bad… If you can think anyone else to tag, that would be great!

[GSzabados (Gabor Szabados)]

@Brad_ST, do you want us to tag you on each cases when a new user tries theSunrise/Sunset with the new app’s Smart Lighting or is there an update coming for the new app which would resolve this issue? I can see that you have quite busy day after the Christmas period adding Hello Home for many new users.
I know Smart Lighting is one of the basic use cases for Sunrise and Sunset, but BigTalker uses it too.
By the way, where the Automations builder gets the Sunrise and Sunset changes?

[Brad_ST (Brad)]

Preferably, these get reported through the official support channels for proper tracking and so I’m not a single point of failure.

There are multiple factors in play here.

Sunrise and Sunset in the Classic app is scheduled by the Weather Station SmartApp which is part of Hello Home and to function properly, a user needs to set a geolocation. Hello Home is installed when a user creates a location in the Classic app or if a user created a location in the new app and then uses the Classic app.

If a user starts out with or only uses the new app, they will still need to set a geolocation. There are warnings and you are unable to create a custom automation or Smart Lighting automation that utilizes sunrise/sunset without setting a geolocation.

However, there is a bug that I was able to reproduce where a user can create a sunrise/sunset automation in Smart Lighting in the new app without having Hello Home and Weather Station. If a user is in this situation, they should be able to sign into the Classic app and Hello Home/Weather Station will install and sunrise/sunset events for Smart Lighting will execute as expected.

If the user manually uninstalled Hello Home on their own in the IDE, using the Classic app won’t re-install those SmartApps and the user should reach out to support or transition to custom automations.

All of this is likely confounded by the confusion over the change in the recent Classic app updates where if a user has removed all of their Routines, they are unable to view the Routines tab. Many users who have claimed they need have Hello Home re-installed actually have Hello Home and Weather Station installed but they have uninstalled all Routines. If the user is insistent on using Routines, the entire Hello Home SmartApp will need to be re-installed by support.

Edit: Another point of failure is if the Weather Station SmartApp fails to reschedule. This can be checked by the user in the IDE and they can update it to get things going again. We used to see this more frequently in the past but a user just ran into it which reminded me.

[dcantral (Donald Cantral)]

I have been using SmartThings for some time and have smart devices in my homes in three cities. I like the new location function because it has been confusing navigating all of the devices from one screen. However, when I went in to add new automation, there is no longer a condition for Sunrise/Sunset. I’ve added a location for my home in Orange County but am unable to add locations for Arizona and Nashville because it is using the geolocation function for the location. Obviously, I can’t now add those cities until I visit those homes again. That part’s OK. But, I want to add a sunrise/sunset automation while I’m at my home in Orange County and cannot figure out how to get that option to come back. I have automatic app updating enabled. So, I am unsure when this option disappeared as I haven’t had to make a change to automations in a while.

I’m very confused and looking forward to your assistance.

Thanks.

[jihunroh]

I deleted Hello home smartapp, and now can’t create any new routine. Could you revert it?

[GSzabados (Gabor Szabados)]

@Brad_ST

Preferably, these get reported through the official support channels for proper tracking and so I’m not a single point of failure.

@jihunroh please see above.

[Brad_ST (Brad)]

A change was released this week which allows users to self-address this issue. If a Smart Lighting Automation that uses sunrise/sunset is created or saved in the new app and you do not have the Weather Station SmartApp installed, it will be installed automatically under the Smart Lighting automation. If you already have sunrise/sunset automations, you should be able to open and save an automation without making a change and see Weather Station installed.

You can verify it was successful in the IDE by looking for Weather Station in your SmartApps list under Smart Lighting:

[GSzabados (Gabor Szabados)]

@Brad_ST, that sounds like a solution, but two quick questions.

If a SmartApp uses Sunset and Sunrise, I guess it is still need to get those times/events the same way as before. Subscribe to the location’s events.

What if a user pauses Smart Lighting completely in the new app? Will that pause the update of the Sunrise and Sunset values too, what might be used by other SmartApps?

Previously the option was available only in the IDE to pause Hello Home and/or Weather Station, and the place where you can find it is not so obvious. But now, you can pause Smart Lighting straight from the new app’s SmartApps section.

[haseeb]

@Brad_ST , I have tried that solution -
i.e

1. open my new smartthings app
2. go to automation - and edit the sunrise turn on/off automation (just changed the title and pressed “Save”)
3. went to my installed SmartApps (both on app and online on smartthings.com)
   => nothing installed there…

and the lights still turn on at a “fixed time” depending on the day i edit/save… i.e if sunset today is 5pm, it will remain at 5pm until i edit it again, then it will update to the sunset time of that day…

[orangebucket (Graham)]

I think you may be conflating two issues.

In the legacy environment (Groovy Device Handlers, Smart Lighting, webCoRE etc) the key to sunrise/sunset is the Weather Station app which is now installed as a child of Smart Lighting when required, having previously been a child of the app that ran Routines.

In the current, ‘new’ environment the sunrise/sunset times have a different source. Automations don’t update the times every day, they wait two or three days for them to drift a minute or two and then make a correction. This correction hasn’t been happening lately.

[haseeb]

understood - so i don’t like smart lighting and prefer the the “new” environment sunrise/sunset as i have automation that turns garden lights on at sunset, but then shuts them automatically 2h after… that is not possible in smartlighting (i can only turn off at sunrise… not a fixed number of minutes/hours after they turn on)…

who can we contact to get this fixed? the correction has not been happening for at least a few weeks now - and days are getting longer much faster pace…

[GSzabados (Gabor Szabados)]

Looking at the topics from the past month, there is an obvious issue with sunrise and sunset in the automations. And as its probably matching with the last app update, I have a solid guess that it is due to the migration to the rules API, what caused Scenes and Automations to disappear for some users.
I cannot find any comment from ST on the subject, so I will tag @vlad for the question. - Is the sunrise/sunset time not updating issue worked on? And when is a fix expected to be delivered?

[Stefan_Umen (Stefan Umén)]

Hi! I’m also suffering from the sunrise/sunset error…
The values for sunset and sunrise hasn’t been updated since the 25th of December last year, see attached picture. I did contact the support a couple of days ago but still no answer, and now I don’t know what else to do…!

20210228|548x216

[GSzabados (Gabor Szabados)]

@Stefan_Umen, That’s quite odd. Try to install the SmartLighting SmartApp. It should install the right module (smartapp) for sunrise and sunset, what should update those values. It is called Weather Station. You can have a look on the IDE that have you got Weather Station SmartApp installed or not.

[Stefan_Umen (Stefan Umén)]

Hi again!
Here’s a picture of what apps are installed. I’ve read in other threads that some people are missing the Hello Home app, and I can’t see one here… And, I have no memory of deleting one either.
And, the weather app I just installed yesterday, just to see if anything changes…but not.

[GSzabados (Gabor Szabados)]

The SmartWeather Station Controller is not what you need!

You have missed this post a few above yours. @orangebucket explained it well.

Hello Home and Sunrise/Sunset

I think you may be conflating two issues. In the legacy environment (Groovy Device Handlers, Smart Lighting, webCoRE etc) the key to sunrise/sunset is the Weather Station app which is now installed as a child of Smart Lighting when required, having previously been a child of the app that ran Routines. In the current, ‘new’ environment the sunrise/sunset times have a different source. Automations don’t update the times every day, they wait two or three days for them to drift a minute or two and then make a correction. This correction hasn’t been happening lately.

Install SmartLighting, and set a sunrise/sunset light, then you will have the Weather Station as a child of SmartLighting.

But as I can see, that you haven’t used SmartLighting, so what you are using the sunrise/sunset for and how? Have you used it with Automations? Then you again missed to read this post above yours.

Hello Home and Sunrise/Sunset

Looking at the topics from the past month, there is an obvious issue with sunrise and sunset in the automations. And as its probably matching with the last app update, I have a solid guess that it is due to the migration to the rules API, what caused Scenes and Automations to disappear for some users. I cannot find any comment from ST on the subject, so I will tag @vlad for the question. - Is the sunrise/sunset time not updating issue worked on? And when is a fix expected to be delivered?

The sunrise/sunset in Automations has an issue currently, there are a half dozen topics about it already where people are complaining about it, as it is not working, not updating.

SmartLighting sunrise/sunset rules are updating correctly. I have a light set up that way and that’s shifts day by day.

[Stefan_Umen (Stefan Umén)]

Hi!

Just want to Thank You for pointing out some things for me, made me think again…

So, I think I managed to fix my errors, first some background:

I started out with the ”old” Classic app, maybe a year ago. Made all my ”routines” and so on. Had some minor errors regarding the dimmers and so but I thought that it would be fixed as soon as I got my account migrated to the new app. And so it did, everything worked fine until this Christmas obviously. Then I lost half of my “Automations”, the Scenes and Devices were still there, I don’t know why.

So I rebuilt the missing automations and I got everything to work, at least I thought. Then some time ago I noticed that the lights didn’t go on and off as expected, that’s when I dicovered that the sunrise/sunset time in the IDE hadn’t changed over time. Stille the same time as of the 25^th of december.

So, a couple of days ago I deleted all of my Automations and scenes, just kept the devices.

Rebuilt all of them and now it seems like it’s working. But, the sunrise/sunset time in the IDE is still wrong. But as long as it works I don’t care about that.

Br/ Stefan

Skickades från E-post för Windows 10