Hello Home and Sunrise/Sunset

Continuing the discussion from Sunrise/Sunset Setting Not Working:

As @Brad_ST stated in the other topic, Hello Home and the Weather Station app used to installed by the Classic App as default, but it seems to be not happening for many users who start with the new App.

I see a conflicting communication regarding the Limits and Guardrails (Scenes and Automations) FAQ: Limits and Guardrails (max # of automations, devices, etc) and Smart Lighting and other SmartApps. As my understanding the Scenes and Automations would use the “behaviours” what has a limitation (might due to the coming local processing), but if someone uses SmartApps or rule engines like WebCoRe or Sharptools.io that is less limited (only number of SmartApps, calls etc. https://smartthings.developer.samsung.com/docs/rate-limits.html but even these limits seems to be incorrectly listed as some users has seen different values being active, like number of rooms, @jkp).

Anyhow, seeing a lot of new topics popping up from new users who are struggling setting up basic automations I need to ask how is the way forward on the roadmap?

The Hello Home SmartApp is one of the most significant part of many SmartApps, basically for defining through the Weather Station sunrise and sunset, but many relies on it for Mode changes too. But as it is not installed anymore in many cases as default, the functionality of Smart Lighting is limited in many ways. But building Scenes and Automations the same feature is burning quickly the behaviours too.

So what is the current plan, how is this conflict planned to be resolved in the future? I thought that @Brad_ST have done a lot for the community fixing Hello Home SmartApps, but really that is a temporary solution. And as he has pointed out before,

But now you have me questioning how sunrise/sunset automations for Smart Lighting created in the new app would ever work…

How the current SmartApps are going to be supported, when basic features are removed and not replaced yet with equivalent ones?

Tagging some people to start an open discussion on this issue, @blake.arnold, @jody.albritton, @Brad_ST, @slagle


These are great questions, but I am afraid that you will get any real answers when @slagle is coming back. And that may be a long time to wait. He hasn’t been around since May of 2018.

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@HA_fanatic, Thanks! I haven’t went through all the posts. I see. My bad… If you can think anyone else to tag, that would be great!

@Brad_ST, do you want us to tag you on each cases when a new user tries theSunrise/Sunset with the new app’s Smart Lighting or is there an update coming for the new app which would resolve this issue? I can see that you have quite busy day after the Christmas period adding Hello Home for many new users.
I know Smart Lighting is one of the basic use cases for Sunrise and Sunset, but BigTalker uses it too.
By the way, where the Automations builder gets the Sunrise and Sunset changes?

Preferably, these get reported through the official support channels for proper tracking and so I’m not a single point of failure.

There are multiple factors in play here.

Sunrise and Sunset in the Classic app is scheduled by the Weather Station SmartApp which is part of Hello Home and to function properly, a user needs to set a geolocation. Hello Home is installed when a user creates a location in the Classic app or if a user created a location in the new app and then uses the Classic app.

If a user starts out with or only uses the new app, they will still need to set a geolocation. There are warnings and you are unable to create a custom automation or Smart Lighting automation that utilizes sunrise/sunset without setting a geolocation.

However, there is a bug that I was able to reproduce where a user can create a sunrise/sunset automation in Smart Lighting in the new app without having Hello Home and Weather Station. If a user is in this situation, they should be able to sign into the Classic app and Hello Home/Weather Station will install and sunrise/sunset events for Smart Lighting will execute as expected.

If the user manually uninstalled Hello Home on their own in the IDE, using the Classic app won’t re-install those SmartApps and the user should reach out to support or transition to custom automations.

All of this is likely confounded by the confusion over the change in the recent Classic app updates where if a user has removed all of their Routines, they are unable to view the Routines tab. Many users who have claimed they need have Hello Home re-installed actually have Hello Home and Weather Station installed but they have uninstalled all Routines. If the user is insistent on using Routines, the entire Hello Home SmartApp will need to be re-installed by support.

Edit: Another point of failure is if the Weather Station SmartApp fails to reschedule. This can be checked by the user in the IDE and they can update it to get things going again. We used to see this more frequently in the past but a user just ran into it which reminded me.


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