Hello Home and Sunrise/Sunset

Continuing the discussion from Sunrise/Sunset Setting Not Working:

As @Brad_ST stated in the other topic, Hello Home and the Weather Station app used to installed by the Classic App as default, but it seems to be not happening for many users who start with the new App.

I see a conflicting communication regarding the Limits and Guardrails (Scenes and Automations) FAQ: Limits and Guardrails (max # of automations, devices, etc) and Smart Lighting and other SmartApps. As my understanding the Scenes and Automations would use the “behaviours” what has a limitation (might due to the coming local processing), but if someone uses SmartApps or rule engines like WebCoRe or Sharptools.io that is less limited (only number of SmartApps, calls etc. https://smartthings.developer.samsung.com/docs/rate-limits.html but even these limits seems to be incorrectly listed as some users has seen different values being active, like number of rooms, @jkp).

Anyhow, seeing a lot of new topics popping up from new users who are struggling setting up basic automations I need to ask how is the way forward on the roadmap?

The Hello Home SmartApp is one of the most significant part of many SmartApps, basically for defining through the Weather Station sunrise and sunset, but many relies on it for Mode changes too. But as it is not installed anymore in many cases as default, the functionality of Smart Lighting is limited in many ways. But building Scenes and Automations the same feature is burning quickly the behaviours too.

So what is the current plan, how is this conflict planned to be resolved in the future? I thought that @Brad_ST have done a lot for the community fixing Hello Home SmartApps, but really that is a temporary solution. And as he has pointed out before,

But now you have me questioning how sunrise/sunset automations for Smart Lighting created in the new app would ever work…

How the current SmartApps are going to be supported, when basic features are removed and not replaced yet with equivalent ones?

Tagging some people to start an open discussion on this issue, @blake.arnold, @jody.albritton, @Brad_ST, @slagle

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These are great questions, but I am afraid that you will get any real answers when @slagle is coming back. And that may be a long time to wait. He hasn’t been around since May of 2018.

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@HA_fanatic, Thanks! I haven’t went through all the posts. I see. My bad… If you can think anyone else to tag, that would be great!

@Brad_ST, do you want us to tag you on each cases when a new user tries theSunrise/Sunset with the new app’s Smart Lighting or is there an update coming for the new app which would resolve this issue? I can see that you have quite busy day after the Christmas period adding Hello Home for many new users.
I know Smart Lighting is one of the basic use cases for Sunrise and Sunset, but BigTalker uses it too.
By the way, where the Automations builder gets the Sunrise and Sunset changes?

Preferably, these get reported through the official support channels for proper tracking and so I’m not a single point of failure.

There are multiple factors in play here.

Sunrise and Sunset in the Classic app is scheduled by the Weather Station SmartApp which is part of Hello Home and to function properly, a user needs to set a geolocation. Hello Home is installed when a user creates a location in the Classic app or if a user created a location in the new app and then uses the Classic app.

If a user starts out with or only uses the new app, they will still need to set a geolocation. There are warnings and you are unable to create a custom automation or Smart Lighting automation that utilizes sunrise/sunset without setting a geolocation.

However, there is a bug that I was able to reproduce where a user can create a sunrise/sunset automation in Smart Lighting in the new app without having Hello Home and Weather Station. If a user is in this situation, they should be able to sign into the Classic app and Hello Home/Weather Station will install and sunrise/sunset events for Smart Lighting will execute as expected.

If the user manually uninstalled Hello Home on their own in the IDE, using the Classic app won’t re-install those SmartApps and the user should reach out to support or transition to custom automations.

All of this is likely confounded by the confusion over the change in the recent Classic app updates where if a user has removed all of their Routines, they are unable to view the Routines tab. Many users who have claimed they need have Hello Home re-installed actually have Hello Home and Weather Station installed but they have uninstalled all Routines. If the user is insistent on using Routines, the entire Hello Home SmartApp will need to be re-installed by support.

Edit: Another point of failure is if the Weather Station SmartApp fails to reschedule. This can be checked by the user in the IDE and they can update it to get things going again. We used to see this more frequently in the past but a user just ran into it which reminded me.

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I have been using SmartThings for some time and have smart devices in my homes in three cities. I like the new location function because it has been confusing navigating all of the devices from one screen. However, when I went in to add new automation, there is no longer a condition for Sunrise/Sunset. I’ve added a location for my home in Orange County but am unable to add locations for Arizona and Nashville because it is using the geolocation function for the location. Obviously, I can’t now add those cities until I visit those homes again. That part’s OK. But, I want to add a sunrise/sunset automation while I’m at my home in Orange County and cannot figure out how to get that option to come back. I have automatic app updating enabled. So, I am unsure when this option disappeared as I haven’t had to make a change to automations in a while.

I’m very confused and looking forward to your assistance.

Thanks.

I deleted Hello home smartapp, and now can’t create any new routine. Could you revert it?

@jihunroh please see above.

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A change was released this week which allows users to self-address this issue. If a Smart Lighting Automation that uses sunrise/sunset is created or saved in the new app and you do not have the Weather Station SmartApp installed, it will be installed automatically under the Smart Lighting automation. If you already have sunrise/sunset automations, you should be able to open and save an automation without making a change and see Weather Station installed.

You can verify it was successful in the IDE by looking for Weather Station in your SmartApps list under Smart Lighting:

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@Brad_ST, that sounds like a solution, but two quick questions.

If a SmartApp uses Sunset and Sunrise, I guess it is still need to get those times/events the same way as before. Subscribe to the location’s events.

What if a user pauses Smart Lighting completely in the new app? Will that pause the update of the Sunrise and Sunset values too, what might be used by other SmartApps?

Previously the option was available only in the IDE to pause Hello Home and/or Weather Station, and the place where you can find it is not so obvious. But now, you can pause Smart Lighting straight from the new app’s SmartApps section.