Yale Lock, Intermatic HA01C Z-Wave outlet, 2Gig CT100 Thermostat, LimitlessLED


(Radiogavin) #1

Hi Everybody,

So I have some (under-reported) news on a few Things I’ve acquired.

I bought a few Things that I had no real reason to believe would work (out of the box) with Smartthings, except for a hunch and some hubris. Some of these Things I bought because the price was right (compared to the alternatives at the time). Another Thing was simply the best-in-class, and I would be outraged if it didn’t work. So here are my first impressions on these devices, keeping in mind that I’m a solid C+ (slightly above-average) when it comes to programming this stuff. I am hindered by the lack of Android phone “presence” capability, along with the fact that I didn’t understand how important motion detectors and presence sensors would be to the success of the Smart Home. Once the Thing Store opens (should be soon according to ST Engineer Andrew Urman), we will all fix this and really be able to take advantage of Magic Modes, etc.

So first, the Yale Real Living Touch Screen Z-Wave lock. It looks better than any Schlage or Kwickset model (I’ve seen all three brand’s offerings), and it also got best-in-class reviews from several Mi Casa Verde/Vera users on their forums. I installed them on front and back doors. By far the easiest to set up using the Yale voice/touch interface (compared to the competitors), it showed up on the ST Hub quickly. It was balky at first in the ST App, and after I contacted support, Andrew Urman informed me that they had the same model in their office and it worked great. They had simply not updated the compatibility spreadsheet in a while. The last Android update seemed to work out the kinks in the ST App. I can unlock the locks with a touch of a button from the ST app, and there is only a 1 or two second lag (usually).

Next. The Intermatic / Home Settings HA01C z-wave In-Wall Receptacle: it works great. I bought four of these because they were going for $17 each (a bit less than GE/Jasco’ s $40 ask). I hear rumors that the range is iffy during setup: i.e. you need the ST Hub to be close (5-15 feet) in order to register one on the system. I installed two (of my four) so far. The first was coincidentally 3’ from the hub, and it installed instantly. The other is 18’ away from the Hub, with one wall in between. It also installed quickly. When I get more motion detectors, it will encourage further installations of the other two receptacles. At this time, they turn on and off easily using the device page on the ST App. Now may be the time to pick up more of these because I think I read a post or two that Intermatic was discontinuing these outlets, and they were selling cheap b/c a few folks bought out the stocks for pennies on the dollar. Any news on this?

How about the 2Gig Z-Wave CT100 Thermostat. I have a two-zone, forced-air HVAC system (first and second floor), and I got two of these for $70 each. They installed easily, and look pretty good. They registered quickly in the ST App. Using my phone, I can switch from heating to cooling, and switch the fan to on, off, or auto. But I can’t change temp from the device page. The device page does update the temp tiles with whatever is programmed directly into the thermostat’s touch screen. I have not tried the thermostat with any modes or more complicated ST Apps, so I have not come close to fully realizing the advantages these thermostats could offer. But they show up in my Things page, and I’ll report back soon once I get all my modes working with time of day and presence sensors, etc.

Lastly: The LimitlessLED bulb, brought to us by Hamish from New Zealand. I have 7 white (60Watt equivalent) and one RGB bulb. They do not work with ST yet. Using the LimitlessLED app on Google Play, I set them up with a light/moderate amount of trouble (one email – returned lighting quick from support – fixed everything). Not a perfect replacement for incandescent, but the variable color temp options make it as good as CFLs, IMO. Hamish is a fairly consistent presence on the ST forums, and he is clearly working to integrate the bulbs with ST. It is curious that it hasn’t clicked yet, and looks like it has something to do with the wifi bridge and wifi nature of the Limitless bulbs. This would be a great hack, as the bulbs are $17ea, and wifi controllable/dimmable from your phone. Much cheaper that in-wall dimmers, though there are advantages to both.

So three out of four of these things pretty much worked out of the box with ST, even though they were ‘not supported’ with any formal indicators. The other Thing (LimitlessLED bulbs) has an interested party working on integration and is a regular contributor on the BUILD boards. All in all, I’m impressed with all the support for this whole ST effort, even as it’s in its extreme infancy.

I’d love to hear other success stories about under-the-radar Things, and I’ll do my best to keep this thread updated with future successes (and failures)!

Ciao,

Rob Holtorff


(Andrew Urman) #2
Once the Thing Store opens (should be soon according to ST Engineer Andrew Urman), we will all fix this and really be able to take advantage of Magic Modes, etc.

Hey thats me!

Nice write up!


(Chrisb) #3
How about the 2Gig Z-Wave CT100 Thermostat. I have a two-zone, forced-air HVAC system (first and second floor), and I got two of these for $70 each. They installed easily, and look pretty good. They registered quickly in the ST App. Using my phone, I can switch from heating to cooling, and switch the fan to on, off, or auto. But I can’t change temp from the device page. The device page does update the temp tiles with whatever is programmed directly into the thermostat’s touch screen.

This is true for the Honeywell too. I believe this is just part of it being beta still. Some of the stuff that will eventually be there hasn’t made it quite yet.


(Gary Mullen) #4

@Radiogavin Thanks for sharing your experience with these Things. I just ordered 2 of the CT100 Thermostats, can’t wait to start playing with them! The Yale Lock looks pretty sweet, a bit pricey though. I’m sure I’ll be ordering one after I lock myself out :slight_smile:


(Chrisb) #5

I got a Kwikset off eBay a while back and love it. Even before I got my smartthings it was handy. My kids can get in after school now without needing to carry (and potentially lose) a key. And my wife loves that when she goes out for a walk with the dog she doesn’t need to bring a key either.

Also I have it setup to automatically lock itself 30 seconds after it’s unlocked. This means never having to lock it behind me anymore either. Really handy.

Now that I have SmartThings I love being able to unlock the door via my phone so I keep my keys in my pockets and don’t need to punch in a code. When I get some presence tags it’ll be even better.


(Radiogavin) #6

@chrisb - Your experience that you wrote about with the Kwikset locks expresses exactly what I’m finding out. These smart locks are true game-changers (much like Smartthings). As the Android Beta gets better and better, it’s funny how the few early deficiencies are starting to make me more impatient. I was the model of patience while I waited many weeks for the first build. Now, ANDROID PRESENCE, PLEASE!

With that said, keep up the good work, ST Android Engineers! This thing is awesome.

@Gary Mullen (and anyone else thinking about thermostats) - So I spent some time looking at the Nest. Looks pretty amazing. It’s got this proprietary algorithm that learns your preferences and integrates meteorological predictions, etc. Is there any reason this can’t be done with a SmartApp, motion/presence sensors, and ANY smart thermostat? I see over on build/projects that Dianoga is working to integrate the Nest with ST. It’ll be great when it works, but given the price point of the Nest, I’d think that a SmartApp for the budget thermostats would warrant a looksee, and possibly work as well. You’d want to team up with some HVAC gurus and a thermal scientist here or there. But it seems like it could be done. Am I crazy for thinking this?

Got the Yale real living touchscreen locks for $240 ea, incl. shipping. A little pricier than Kwikset or Schlage: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NLKQJG/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Here’s an interesting discussion about the Big 3 lock makers:
http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,14819.0.html

That’s it for now.

Yours in Beta,

Rob Holtorff


(Chrisb) #7
As the Android Beta gets better and better, it’s funny how the few early deficiencies are starting to make me more impatient. I was the model of patience while I waited many weeks for the first build. Now, ANDROID PRESENCE, PLEASE!

Agreed on that! Another thing I find interesting: When there was the cloud disruption on Friday that affected some of us for a few hours, I was amazed at how I felt about having to do things the old way… it felt so old fashion and antiquated after just a couple of week of running smarthings:

Wait… you mean I have to us my garage door opener and wait until I’m in my drive way and can’t just push a button on my phone? And I have to use my key in my lock instead of hitting a button? What is this… the 1800s?


(Brian Steere) #8

@Radiogavin Honestly, I’m seriously considering doing some of that as part of my work with the Nest. My thermostat is in a part of the house where the auto-away status is next to useless. As far as all the other smart bits, those work pretty well on the Nest and could be challenging (though not impossible) to accomplish using SmartApps.


(Chrisb) #9

One REALLY cool thing about the Kwikset that I wasn’t aware of until I installed it is that the core can be “re-keyed.” I still have to figure out how in the heck this works, but it’s pretty slick. I happened to be replacing an existing “dumb” kwikset door lock which used the same type of key.

If you use the original, turn it half way, then insert a special tool into a slot, you can take out the original key, put in your old key, turn it back, and voila… your old key opens the door. This was great because we didn’t need to go out and get new keys made. Right now I think we have six keys… Me, my wife, my son, my parents, my wife’s parents, and one extra spare.


(Radiogavin) #10

@ Dianoga - I will follow your exploits with great curiosity. And not that I have anything against the Nest folks, but I would giggle like a little school girl if someone wrote a SmartApp for other connected thermostats that was as effective as The Nest – essentially rendering the Nest obsolete. In fact, I will put it out there right now and suggest that it’s gonna happen. And not that I’m the one to do it, but I 'spose its time to brush up on my programming chops…

I mean, this is what an open api promises, right?

@chrisb - You bring up a very good point, which I’ve been thinking about… ever since I installed those puppies.

When I was scouting these things I saw the re-key feature on the Kwikset page; that was definitely a selling-point that almost won me over at the time. Now I’m actually starting to wonder if I should have dispensed with the cylinder all-together. I haven’t bothered putting either the new front or back door key on my (or my wife’s) key chain… and this, mostly from laziness. But now I’m wondering if I need a key at all. Then yesterday I find out that Yale makes a keyless version of the same lock, and has this to say about it:

The Yale Real Living™ Key Free Touchscreen Deadbolt, designed to integrate seamlessly into the digital home, provides a significant increase in security as it eliminates the most vulnerable part of the lock: the cylinder. Absence of the cylinder provides a “clean” appearance, yet means that lock picking or bumping are virtually impossible. In the unlikely event the batteries die - a 9V battery provides enough power to enter the code and gain access to the lock.

sound of my hand slapping my forehead

As you know, we can let the repair guy in while we’re at work with a touch of a Smartthings button; or we can text him a temporary code to get in. We no longer need to have keys left with the neighbors in case of emergency (b/c they have their own code if they get tapped to feed the cats or walk the dog). With smart locks on the front and back door, the likelihood of BOTH sets of batteries failing at the same time is virtually nil, so I ought to be able to get in somewhere via access code or smartphone, even during extreme battery problems. (Though this scenario does not allow for the crazy year-long vacation to Africa for the entire family without some contingencies).

I think I could have saved myself some cash with a key-free lock, but I have no idea how much because I can’t find these guys online yet.

I feel like the 44-year old guy with the massive compact disc collection while all the younger cats around me are comparing the number of lossless music files they have stored on their 4TB hard drives. I really feel like I should have a physical key – even though there’s no album art to prop up the argument.

I should stop now before I wade into a pool of Smart Home darkness and remorse. Instead I will focus on creating a SmartApp that walks the dog while I’m on vacation!

rgh


(John Essey) #11

@Radiogavin – Great write up! Glad to know the CT100 Thermostats work! I just got mine a few days ago! Do you have your devices paired solely with the ST as your primary zwave controller, or with a secondary controller involved? If you have a primary and secondary zwave controller what are your experiences with devices that share more stateful information like temp, and then adjustment to controls? All my devices at this point are outlets (on/off) and work fine, even though the applications I use dont share current status, they do share current controls (meh).

Also good information on locks too! I’m expecting my Lockitron this month, then I’m going to put in a Kwikset Home Connect 910TRL.

Cheers!


(Cory S) #12

@Chrisb I don’t know if kwiksets still have this problem or not, but I verified this on the smartkey set I replaced when I installed my Schlage.


(Chrisb) #13

Interesting… I hadn’t seen that before and I don’t know if it’s still true or not. Also, I don’t know how much I’m worried about that possibility happening in real life.

First, I tend to think that door and window locks are really only a means to stop the casual “target of opportunity” type break-ins. That is, someone walking around happens to see a house that looks uninhabited and decides to check if he can get in quick and easy and steal something quick and easy. It didn’t strike me that it was as quick and easy as they claimed it was. The guy was working it for quite a while there. Granted, it wasn’t terrible hard, but it was like a lock bump that you could be in in 3 seconds or less. The door where this lock is located is easily visible to pretty much the entire neighborhood. An intruder would be greatly exposed doing this. Going up there with a screwdriver and a wrench and working on the door for 30 seconds exposed like that isn’t going to be something a casual intruder would likely want to do.

Second, I disagree with their assertion that it can be returned to “normal” and hence there would be no evidence of a break in. I think there is some pretty clear damage to the lock and certainly when anyone tried to use their key it would be pretty obvious that something was wrong. Beyond that, an intruder in my home would likely NOT be looking to steal information. They’d be after material possessions so leaving no evidence of the intrusion isn’t important to them. Beyond even that, as soon as they opened my door I’d get notification on my phone that the door was opened, so I’d know.

Having said all this, I am curious to know if Kwikset has addressed this at all. The video is nearly three years old now so I hope they have done something about this.


(Cory S) #14

I am pretty much of the same opinion as you Chris. Locks just help keep honest people honest for the most part. Locks that could be “bumped” concerned me more, as it is super easy to do and is a lot more common to see criminals use.


(Eric B) #15

Anyone know if the Yale lock codes can be monitored/managed via the SmartThings App? It looks like the Schlage and Kwikset can’t be managed–that would be the deciding factor of going with the Yale lock.

Thanks,
Eric


(Radiogavin) #16

Hi Eric,

The bottom line is that I am not able to actively manage the Yale lock from SmartThings – other than to open it and close it remotely. In fact, it does not register any local activities (unlock with knob? Unlock with keypad? Auto re-lock after 30 sec? No, no, no) on the SmartThings Physical Graph (https://graph.api.smartthings.com/) - let alone advanced programming features.

The ST Graph page does keep track of remote opens and closures. For for local activities, I rely on open/close sensors on the door. I assume this is also the case with Schlage and Kwikset at this time. So we have a ways to go.

I have taken a break from pushing hard against the technology since my initial excitement/investment. I get a lot of great information from my ST set up now, though I feel like we’re far short of its potential.

My buddy is using a Mi Casa Verde 2 box, and I know he get’s texts or emails when a particular code is used to enter his house. And while I haven’t verified his news or done a lot of digging on my current set up, it seems like there are some software adjustments that would address some of our issues. It will take a motivated ST programmer. There will come a point when I start suggesting we all employ a crowd-funding approach to some of our problems. But until I sift through all the recent developments (which will take me some time after my 4-month layoff), I am not even sure what’s out there right now.

Best regards,

Rob Holtorff


(Steven) #17

I have the Kwikset deadbolt and just wanted to say that recently I have been getting local feedback, regarding lock conditions. It’s not 100% reliable, but previously I never had any updates unless I manually-polled the lock.

Conversely, my Kwikset door handle on another room does not report instant live status. I too, dream of a day when we can use access codes. I want to give temporary codes, and change the main codes for roommates, etc.


(Radiogavin) #18

Steven, That’s great news on the Kwikset deadbolt. Are your readings via the tiles under your ST Kwikset Lock tile, or is that from the readings that you get when you “swipe up” to get the history/log?

Also, I now have temperature sliders (heating and cooling) on my ST App/ 2-Gig thermostat page. I am still experimenting with them to see if they actually control the temperature settings of the actual thermostat, but it’s an interesting development as they just started showing up after maybe an update or two ago. At first try, it seems that the tiles report the current heating and cooling set-points, but it seems I can’t change them from afar by moving the sliders.

Oh so close. No cigar, so far…

Cheers,

Rob


(Michael) #19

Figured it wouldn’t hurt to give this thread a little bump…

Curious about the Yale deadbolt (for anyone who has experience with them): From Radiogavin’s post on 10/11 it’s clear that the local activities at the lock don’t report back to ST… ok, that’s fine. But what about the more advanced features of the lock that (from what I can tell by looking at a PDF of their manual) can’t be programmed at the lock itself?

I wondering specifically about the auto-lock feature. Is ST (or Vera for the matter) able to change this from it’s default 30 seconds? I know it can be set anywhere from 10 - 240 seconds but I think you need to adjust this parameter from one’s home automation controller (correct me if I’m wrong there). Anyone know if ST is able to accomplish this?

Reason I’m asking is because I’m picturing myself or my wife driving up to our house… our presence sensors (each iPhones) will change the automatically unlock the Yale deadbolt BUT it will re-lock itself 30 seconds later! Hardly enough time to park, gather things and walk to the front door (let along get the baby out of the backseat).

Anyone running to a similar issue? If so any creative ways around it? Thanks for the input!


(Duncan) #20

The Yale locks will report local activities now, but we don’t have lockout interval configuration yet, sorry.