Will putting my Tradfri bulbs on a Hue hub harm my Xiaomi sensors?

Devices & Integrations
#1

I have several Xiaomi Mijia zigbee sensors which are functioning GREAT paired to my V3 hub, since I have multiple Tradfri bulbs and an outlet. They’re relaying the signal for the sensors as advertised.

However, I’d like to put my Tradfri bulbs on a Hue hub so that I can have multiple remotes directly paired to the same bulb(s) for fast responsive offline control (kind of like on the Tradfri native system) BUT still exposed to SmartThings via the Hue hub.

I’m worried that if I do that I’d be putting the Tradfri bulbs on a separate zigbee network where they won’t be able to repeat the signal for my Xiaomi sensors. I’m just not 100% sure on how the Tradfri devices hook into the Hue hub network-wise.

Thoughts?

#2

The hue bridge forms its own mini-network. Devices connected through the hue bridge can repeat for each other, but not for devices which are connected through the smartthings hub. So once you put a tradfri bulb on the hue bridge, it is no longer available to repeat for your Xioami sensors. :disappointed_relieved:

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#3

And they are really good at relaying Xaiomi devices - if you remove them, you could make your zigbee mesh weaker…

You can actually do that. I have some of my Trådfri’s paired to both ST and to a Trådfri button (the 5-button “puck”) for backup reason, in case of my internet going down. They respond very fast…
I’m not sure if the other Ikea buttons can do the same, but this works great for me… :slight_smile:

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#4

I know, but that’s why I specifically said “multiple remotes to the same bulb”. In my testing it’s impossible to pair more than one remote directly to a bulb(s) this way. And unlike in the Tradfri ecosystem, once things are paired to ST you can no-longer do the “remote cloning” thing where you make multiple remotes control the same bulb(s).

From what I’ve seen, if I have the bulbs on the Hue bridge, then I will be able to get that behavior/ability back.

My house isn’t so big, most sensors either connect to the hub directly or hop over one bulb. If I leave the outlet in the middle it should relay just fine. I’m just concerned about doing that because I’ve never had any of my devices relay over the outlet for some reason, even though it’s right between the hub and some of the further devices. It’s very strange…

#5

How many sensors do you have? Unlike zwave, which allows devices to pick any available repeater, zigbee uses a parent/child structure where repeaters are permanently assigned in advance and each repeater will only pair up with a limited number of children, typically 3 to 5. Even the hub has a limit of 32 or 64 (depending on the hub model). So one repeating device may not be enough, regardless of where it’s located.

https://community.smartthings.com/t/faq-32-zigbee-direct-connection-device-limit/

#6

Further from the hub I have two remotes and three xiaomi sensors so far. Their routing to the hub…is strange to say the least.
Currently I have one remote ignoring the outlet right between it and the hub and pairing right to the hub across the house, ending with a 100 LQI for the last check-in.
Another remote, which is a little closer, hops over the bulb it’s right next to, THEN over the outlet, and then to the hub…kinda strange.
One sensor hops over a bulb and to the hub, while the other two pair right to the hub.

While I have tried zigbee mesh "heal"s in the past, I don’t think I’ve done it since I put the sensors in.

If I were to turn off the bulbs and do a mesh heal, will the sensors “permanently” pair with the outlet?
Also, I’m guessing that a repeater device can be one of the 3-5 children which a repeater can repeat, right? That’s the whole idea?

#7

No, repeaters don’t count against the limit at all. :sunglasses: Only nonrepeating devices (usually battery operated) count as children.

As for the pathways you currently have, if you haven’t done a zigbee heal in a long time, none of the Battery devices are using repeaters that were added to the network after they were.

There are many factors that go into the selection of a parent, including signal strength, but it is quite common for device to choose the hub for preference if it can’t be reached in one hop and there are still child slots available. The whole point, after all, is to get messages to and from the hub. :arrow_left::arrow_right:

It’s like planning a trip by airplane. Do you look for the route which has a second stop closest to you? Or do you first check to see if there’s a nonstop available?

#8

Well there have been no new router devices added since the sensors/remotes. I’ll do a mesh heal soon and see if anything changes.

What you say makes sense, but it strikes me strange that devices will sacrifice their LQI so much just to pair right to the hub.

Also, while I have your attention, maybe I could probe you about the concept of LQI. NONE of my devices have great LQI. The closest bulbs and remotes to the hub are like 3m direct line of sight to it, and they have LQI between 172 and 212. Meanwhile I have a bulb half a floor up with walls in the way, probably 5-6m away, also with a 170 LQI. And the outlet, which should be good for this stuff, is also half a floor up, with no walls in between and probably 6m away from the hub, with an LQI of 140-170.

This used to drive me crazy when I first set things up with ST, then eventually I gave up on it since things were working without issues. But now that I’m thinking about moving things out, or HOW things decide what to route through, it feels like an issue again >.<

#9

Poor LQIs in a residential environment are almost always from WiFi interference. The stronger your WiFi, the harder it is for nearby Zigbee devices to get their signals through.

#10

You mean low LQI value, right? Higher is better for LQI, ideally 255?
I have my 2.4ghz WiFi on channel 11, and Zigbee is on channel 14. There are no 2.4GHz devices in the room with the ST hub and the line-of sight devices getting imperfect LQI. And the WiFi router is fairly distant from the hub…the hub is on 5.0GHz WiFi.

#11

Sorry, voice error. I said “poor.” I fixed it in my post above.

You have Wi-Fi signal in the room where the zigbee devices are, right? If you use your phone on Wi-Fi in that room it works fine? If so, you have potential interference. Even having a person in the room will lower the LQI.

LQI isn’t something you usually have to worry about if the network is working well enough for every day use.

#12

Yeah I know, it’s just now that I’m looking at potentially removing parts of the mesh, the low LQI of the repeating devices might become an issue.

Do you have perfect LQI anywhere in your mesh?

#13

LQI isn’t static and is rarely perfect since it’s an average of non static events. Like I said, just a person walking through the room will lower the LQI.

It’s used as a relative value during routing. It’s not a fixed measure of quality.

The usual rule of thumb is anything above 200 should be fine, But there are lots of devices which will report an LQI at 150 and still operate with an acceptable QOS.

So again, it’s something you look at during troubleshooting if you are having visible problems. But if the network is operating acceptably, there’s no reason to worry about it.

#14

After doing a mesh heal, things seem to have gotten even more fu*ky…

Now some of the devices furthest away are refusing to route over anything and going straight to the hub across the house. A bulb is routing to the hub, and the two remotes are going through the bulb. As a result they have LQI between 72 and 88 (and RSSI between -82 and -78). And there is a bulb, outlet, and range extender between them and the hub. They’re just being ignored. Only two devices are hopping over the middle bulb (with great results). Although one of those devices is actually on the other side of the hub…so I have no idea why or HOW it’s going OVER the hub to that bulb just to get back to the hub…

Something is definitely not right, I just don’t know what to do.
I don’t have that many devices or automations hooked up, I guess I could rip everything apart and start from scratch?

I know I should move the hub to a more central location in the house, but then that wouldn’t solve the issue of devices refusing to properly route to the hub, I would be bandaiding the problem.

#15

How exactly did you do the heal?

Also can you list the brand and model number of the individual devices?

#16

I unplugged the hub for just over 30 minutes, and then plugged it back in and waited a few hours for the devices to start reporting their new routing in the Groovy IDE.

ST v3 Hub
3x Tradfri 806lm bulb LED1836G9
3x Tradfri dimmer switches E1743
1x Tradfri 1000lm bulb LED1732G11
1x Tradfri 5-button remote E1810
1x Tradfri power outlet E1706
1x Tradfri Signal repeater E1746
2x Xiaomi Mijia Temp sensor WSDCGQ01LM
1x Xiaomi Mijia Door sensor MCCGQ01LM

Thank you very much for taking your time with me, by the way, I really appreciate it.

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#17

@JDRoberts So, did I do the mesh heal correctly?

#18

Did you leave all the other devices on power while the hub was offline?

Did you take out any batteries from the hub if it has them? (V2 hub only)

Also, the IDE used to only update the route report once a day. I don’t know if that’s still true: there was a beta to change it quicker, but I don’t know if it’s gone into production yet.

#19

Yes I left all other devices on as they were. I have a V3 hub so no worry about batteries.

I’ve noticed the IDE only updates device routing/LQI/RSSI once an hour at their check-in times, so it can be at least an hour after the mesh heal before I see the new routes. But even a few hours later things can fluctuate a bit, so I wait several hours before trusting the new route.

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