V1 Hub Conversion to Aeotec Hub: best practices? {includes discussion of moving in phases}

I have a few questions after reading the migration flow after reading the info on the page https://support.smartthings.com/hc/en-us/articles/360055814272?mc_cid=58746605df&mc_eid=c17d98e2a2 which says

  1. Remove and exclude any Z-Wave devices from SmartThings using the steps here
  2. Delete the legacy SmartThings hub from the application and power it down
  3. Add your new hub to the SmartThings app using the steps here
  4. Add your Zigbee and Z-Wave devices using the steps here , beginning with those closest to your new hub and working your way outward
  1. do we only need to remove & exclude Z-wave devices? If so, how will the Zigbee devices know the new hub wants to connect to them? I thought new devices need to be in a pairing mode, so to speak

  2. Is it best/easier to do this thru the app on the phone, or the IDE?

“Exclusion“ is specific to Z wave devices.

Z wave and zigbee handle device ID differently.

Each zigbee device comes from the manufacturer with a specific ID which it tells to the hub at the time that it joins the network. So there is a reset process on the device itself which will prepare to join a new network instead.

In zwave, the hub assigns each new device an ID at the time that it joins the network, and the device stores this information, along with the ID of the hub, in its own firmware.

In order to get the Z wave device to clear out this information so that it will be ready to join a new network, it has to go through an “exclusion“ process which is not needed in zigbee.

And it is a zwave hub which has to tell the Z wave device to go through this process.

It doesn’t have to be the hub that it used to belong to: it can be a brand new hub, which is the “general exclusion“ process. But because it is a hub which assigned the network ID to the zwave device, you have this extra step you have to go through to clear that out with Zwave Devices that you don’t have to go through with zigbee Devices because they always have the same ID no matter what network they are on. :sunglasses:

You will still have to put the zigbee Device into pairing mode when you are ready to join it to the new hub, so you need to check the manual for each device to find out what that process is. That will be part of step six in the instructions that you linked to.

I also have over 50+ devices and need to migrate them from Nvidia Shield Smatthings Link to the new Aeotec Hub.

It seems there is a “Primary Controller shift” option for z-wave devices to migrate from broken hubs etc and that Smarthings supports it per… Promote/Demote Z-wave Primary/Secondary? - #8 by duncan

I also see the option… “Join or Leave Existing Z-Wave Network” for the new hub. It’s supposed to show only when there are no devices installed.

Is anyone more familiar with it? This way I can get about 70% of my devices migrated. Rest are zigbee devices for me.

Thanks.

those won’t work - you’ll need to exclude / join all of them - sorry.

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Thanks Nathan @nathancu

Can you please help explain what this Learn Mode or Primary Controller Shift is for, and how that works?

Thanks.

I was wondering if anyone else can explain, “What is Learn Mode or Primary Controller Shift, and how that works & can be used in the migration?”

These are two very different questions, first, what is primary controller shift, and second, how does that function in a smartthings environment.

Before we start, it is very important to remember that smartthings is a multi protocol platform. Your smartthings hub includes both a zigbee radio and a Z wave radio. Your smartthings account can also add some Wi-Fi devices and some cloud cloud integration. The primary controller shift applies ONLY to the Z wave functions of your hub, so even if you do use it successfully to join to another Z wave network, that won’t bring along any information about your zigbee devices or Wi-Fi devices.

Ok, here we go.

  1. Zwave allows for one “primary controller“ per network and additional “secondary controllers.“ The primary has a number of special functions. When you add a secondary controller to your network, the secondary should not have any devices already connected to it. You basically have to start over.

At the time that the secondary joins the network it will get a copy of the device table for devices that are already on the network. But in most cases it will not be updated with information if the primary adds additional zwave devices after that time. That means in order to get any newer network members exposed to the secondary, you have to remove the secondary and start all over with it yet again.

And as mentioned above, the shared information will only be for Z wave devices. Not virtual devices, not zigbee devices, not cloud to cloud integration. Just the zwave devices.

The most common use for secondaries is when you have a physical zone like a shed or maybe a garage or maybe a home office and you want to improve the local response time in that zone and you don’t really care about having a rule that combines Devices from that zone with your other Z wave devices.

This is most appropriate for zwave networks that run locally, no cloud piece. Vera used to do this a lot, particularly for outbuildings. So it’s a function which is designed for an all zwave all local network which is being broken up into different physical zones.

Because the smartthings hub is a certified Z wave controller, it does provide the ability to add a smartthings hub as a secondary to another network, but you have to first remove any Z wave devices that were connected to it and basically start from scratch.

If you want to try and take a different Z wave hub and add it as a secondary to smartthings as a primary, it’s sometimes possible but it gets messy. You most often see this when someone has an almost standalone z wave system like one of the pool controllers that they want to add into their smartthings account.

So it can be done, some people do use it for some very specific use cases, but it doesn’t help most people very much. Smartthings support specifically will not help you if you run into any trouble with this in either configuration. Because a big part of smartthings is cloud-based and this is not going to work well.

Official instructions for how to do it

And some more details including the official warning that you’re on your own if you try this

Learn mode allows the hub to join or leave a network, or receive the latest network update from another controller in the network. Note that you can only add a Hub to a different Z-Wave network if no Z-Wave devices have been added. Otherwise, you should remove all Z-Wave devices from the Hub first by putting them through a device exclusion. When the SmartThings Hub is added into another Z-Wave network, it may not receive notifications from some battery-operated devices. SmartThings Technical Support does not provide assistance to consumers using the Hub with other Z-Wave controllers.

So the definition is that this is a Z wave utility intended to allow you to create a network with one primary zwave controller and one or more additional secondary zwave controllers. But that function is intended for a network designed in a very different way than the multi protocol cloud-based Architecture that smartthings accounts use. So the function exists, but most people will never have a use for it.

( there is one other use which is to add a diagnostic device to your smartthings zwave network just for the purpose of running some diagnostic reports. That works OK because you’re really only interested in a very short term window while you run the reports. And again it’s only zwave.)

  1. It doesn’t help with migration in any way. In order to add a smartthings hub to another network, you have to first remove any Z wave devices from it. just like you would have to do if you were going to just add the devices individually yourself. it can’t bring along any of your other information such as information about zigbee Devices or virtual Devices or Cloud Integrations. It doesn’t copy any of your cloud level account information. And, to be honest, it doesn’t work very well anyway in a smartthings configuration. :disappointed_relieved:

So trying to use it would only add more work, not less, if you are doing a migration from one smartthings hub to another. :thinking:

@nathancu

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Just realize there’s an existing community FAQ on this topic. It has some additional discussion, particularly on the diagnostic tool aspect.

FAQ: Zwave Secondary Hub Basics

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Thanks @JDRoberts !! I should have clarified my question with z-wave context.

I was trying to find if I can migrate the 35 or so z-wave devices I have (which is majority of my ~50 devices) in a simple way rather than pressing buttons (some of which require ladder like my garage controller). I will start migrating them one by one :frowning:

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If they are some of the newest zwave Devices which can be added with a QR code, then you can exclude them and then use that method. But you probably already know that if you have those.

Otherwise, if it’s a V1 hub, then, yes, unfortunately there’s no way other than going one device at a time and doing the physical manipulation to put each into exclusion/inclusion mode. :disappointed_relieved:

I am migrating from Nvidia Shield Hub which is also being discontinued.
It’s all a mix of devices built over the years. Smoke alarms, garage controllers and some other high ceiling devices are hard to migrate as the buttons need to be pressed.

I am really struggling with this conversion. On the V1 hub, I did not have an “exclude mode” option in the app. I manually deleted each device in the API login (a few through the app as well). They all deleted succesfully but two motion sensors. I then tried to delete the V1 hub from the app, which worked, but I can still see it in the API login. I have the new Aeotec hub installed and connected. My problem is that I can’t get a single switch to pair with it. I’m assuming it’s related to exclusion from the V1 hub not being done but I had no way to do that.

Can anyone please help? ST help is just sending me to their website, no help for my specific issues.

thanks in advance!

That is correct… it was never available in the newer apps for the v1 hub… only through IDE.

You can exclude devices with the new hub in the app. Go to the Devices section, click on the home icon in the upper left of the screen, find All Devices in that menu, find your new hub and open it! Click on the three dots in the upper right of the screen and select z-wave utilities.

From there, you can exclude z-wave devices that are/were connected to other hubs or your current hub.

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Too late now, since my V1 hub was deleted literally an hour or so ago :D! But in my moving to another hub, I could remove a device from the SmartThings app, and the hub would go into exclusion mode when I removed a Z-Wave device. It actually worked pretty well. Remove the device in the app, and then put the device in exclusion mode, and it’s gone.

You can also use the new hub in a general exclusion mode and it will exclude any Z-Wave device that you put in exclusion mode.

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