SmartThings Is Over Party

I was surprised to find that there don’t seem to be a list of recommended routers for use with ST. A stable internet connection is obviously a very important piece to the puzzle. Would be interesting to see a poll of which routers are used in systems with lots of issues vs those with few issues.

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As the old saying goes “all home automation is local.” Which is to say there are a bunch of different reasons why someone might have unreliability. The type of router is definitely one factor, as is the physical placement of devices, the architecture of the home, local wiring, etc. Any of those might affect one person and not another.

That said, there is also no question that SmartThings has from time to time introduced a number of different platform changes over the last two years which have created unreliability for different customers, but not all customers. None of which have anything to do with a particular router model.

So what percentage of unreliability reports have to do with router selection? My personal guess, as someone who was a network engineer, is maybe 15%. Maybe a little more. Certainly less than 25%.

Obviously there’s no way to know for sure, but there are enough verifiable nonrouter-associated reliability incidents acknowledged by support that we know it’s definitely not the solution for most of the problems. :sunglasses:

http://thingsthataresmart.wiki/index.php?title=Bug:_First_Reports

Routers themselves are generally not the issue… however, we have found that users who implement atypical network configurations (port blocking/fowarding, DMZs, etc) can run into challenges with Hubs maintaining a reliable connection to the platform.

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Just throwing this out there, this has been one of the longest party, ever :grinning:

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If your router allows setting QoS (Quality of Service) per device, I recommend giving ST hub the highest priority. The ST bandwidth is quite low, so it won’t interfere with other devices, but it definitely helps with latency, particularly if you do a lot of hi-def video streaming or if you upload a lot of data (e.g. use cloud storage for your phone pictures).

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Anyone who is experiencing stability issues, please join the hub 17.x beta. I won’t promise it will fix every issue you have, but I can say from experience on my own hub that things have been greatly improved.

Also, know that there is a group of engineers busting their ***es to make the v2 hub better. I go home and rely on my own hub to manage the devices in my house, so I am personally invested. It is my personal opinion that too many promises were made by people who weren’t responsible for the implementation, but I’ll be damned before I stop fighting to make ST the best it can be.

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Nick, appreciate your effort. However, you clearly understand that promises made by management (current and former) are indicative of the direction (or lack thereof) of the company.

No engineer can solve those fundamental “rudderless” leadership challenges. Where is Alex? Where is the leadership.

It shouldn’t be a lonely Software Engineer carrying the mantle. I personally fear the repercussions on you for speaking out.

I really hope things are going to get better, but until management steps up and owns their issues, folks like you will just “be damned” before real change will occur.

Good luck!

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Is this to say that some of them are simply not possible with the current hardware?

e.g. true local processing, Bluetooth, UDP etc?

Or local execution of custom smartapps and devicetypes? Or hub migration? or cell backup? I could go on and on. But there already are tons of threads of the v2 promises… The v2 hardware is fully capable of all of this, its really choices by management to over promise and never deliver.

It is what it is… But I do appreciate the attempt at honesty…

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I hope they do manage to sort out the bugs. I’m not brand loyal to anything. If ST manages to get things working and offers a compelling reason for me to switch back, I’ll switch back. That said, the Wink 2 I’ve moved to has a much nicer interface and is so far rock solid. The local processing is great. If ST can bring its advanced feature set to a more reliable user experience it could once again be an option for me. For now, my system has no need for third party device handlers or rules engines. If I outgrow what Wink can offer I’ll reassess the market and buy the best available option at that time.

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I respect that. However, in the past SmartThings have hired a few people from the Community, who were supposed to be “personally vested”, but it barely moved the needle. Unfortunately, in most tech companies engineers are too far removed from the decision making precess to make a real impact.

I appreciate the sentiment, and wish you every success, but it just can’t be a good idea to suggest that people having issues with stability should join a beta program. Betas are by definition both unstable and likely to change. (Plus the separate issue of customer frustration because it’s not an open beta so not everyone who signs up will actually participate.)

I realize my lens is different than many people is because I don’t have the same Plan B. I use a wheelchair and have limited hand function. If the lights don’t come on when they’re supposed to, I can’t just flip a switch as an alternative. I can’t pop the batteries on a sensor by myself. So a “minor glitch” for someone else might leave me in the dark. :disappointed_relieved:

I admire the never ending optimism of SmartThings staff, and I appreciate the long-term vision. And I do wish you every success. But at some point the staff has to internalize the concept of MFOP (maintenance free operating period) and understand that from a consumer’s point of view, “reliable” means “set and forget” – – a system that doesn’t have to be touched for up to six months at a time. That can’t be signing up for a beta program, the two concepts are in conflict.

Submitted with respect.

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For very different reasons I can’t be gambling either.

I like what ST is capable of and I love the flexibility it offers. I’m a technologist as well as a hobbyist and I thrive on what it brings to day to day life.

However, the acceptance factor of the family has diminished based on reliability. Another issue or the requirement to reset a substantial number of devices or something as simple as a light not coming one may well be the straw that I don’t want to see anywhere near the camels back! Stability is key and gambling with a beta programme doesn’t go hand in hand with that, not in my mind anyway!

I hope 17.x brings everything you’re promising I genuinely do. Good luck! @nastevens do you have any provisional date pencilled in for general release?

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I did. What can it get worse??? With all the whining and complaining I see on here for a $99 hub and no other fee I feel everyone thinks they bought a thousand dollar system and feels entitled. But then again that is what this and some other generations are becoming. I think we as a society are becoming it and I for one hope it reverses. There are more stable products out there for more and less versatility. If you want that move on. But stop bashing what has to be a money bleeder for Samsung and be happy they are still investing in it!!! Because frankly after $99 you don’t have to spend another dime to them as everything pretty much works on it due to their openness and the great developers in the community.

EDIT: That was not directed just at you JD. I hit the reply to your post by mistake. Just a general IMO post!

Absolutely right - normally, I would not suggest a beta for improving stability. The only reason I’m suggesting it in this case is because of the specific content of this particular beta. The 17.x release is almost entirely about stability improvements. The one headline feature is factory reset, which is, in itself, a last-ditch reliability effort.

I appreciate that for users where things are working or where ST is an essential quality of life tool, beta is not the best option. But the people with stability issues are exactly the people we want to be testing on to make sure we’ve actually improved.

Only that we will go from beta to general release quickly unless there are unexpected problems in the beta. We have already had a long soak in our internal testing group with good results.

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Beta testers are essential to overall users. Without them to report issues in the real world it may never get better. I beta Android and when an issue arises I submit it to them. And I and others may have helped others never experience that particular issue.

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If I buy a $99 weedwhacker and it only works 50% of the time, am I an entitled brat if I complain? Really? If ST is bleeding out their rear end on these things and that’s why the platform isn’t stable, they need to raise their pricing. If they can’t bring a stable product to market at a competitive price point, perhaps this isn’t in their wheelhouse.

ST marketed and sold this product. Nobody bent them over a barrel and said “You’re gonna sell me a wonder gadget at a loss or else.”

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No I wouldn’t complain because when they first came out they did work like that. I talk with my wallet but in this case what is better really??? Nothing. Iris charges and has issues. Wink 2 isnt that great so unless your going for non plug and play and expensive equipment no. If I bought a 99 dollars chainsaw to do work with and not a 349 Husqvarna or something similar that was on me. You get what you pay for.

One other thing I am not seeing great instability. It could be your ISP for all you know. I forgot I left it armed stay and as soon as I opened a window early this morning it went off instantly. I say that is good. Also rebooting the hub at least every other week helps greatly is no different the a computer or phone they need that to clear out things.