Smartthings: I'm sick of this sh*t! Shape up!

While we’re talking about it - I really really dislike the “hello home” thing. I want to push buttons and have things happen (change a mode, start an action, turn off a light). I’m not having a conversation with my house. I don’t need to have a conversation with my Nest, or my computer, or even my phone.

A page with “modes” would do me just fine - add another one called “actions” and you’re done. No need to get cute. It’s awkward, unintuitive, and gets in the way. And offer to replace the text-message “chat” where my house talks to me with a log, with like 2-3x the info density.

Maybe you could go over to google or apple and poach a designer.

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Pretty sure your results were coincidence. I have 38 things connected (no cams) and the last time I launched the app… well my screen timeout is set to 30 seconds, and I went through 2 of them before the dashboard was enabled.

I have no idea how the needed data is culled and transferred to the app, but I am willing to bet it is being done VERY inefficiently. And when their servers are slow, it takes forever. This happens frequently enough that I have given up using the app for any kind of control. That, plus the fact that the dashboard often does not display an accurate status, I pretty much don’t use it at all.

Grab phone…
Tap SmartThings…
More often than not, wait 40+ seconds before you can do anything…
Worthless!

IMHO, this needs to be addressed before anything else in the mobile app, unfortunately I am guessing this requires changes to the cloud as well. @alex, how much data transfer (in bytes) are we talking about to enable the dashboard for a 30+ device setup, and why is it so slow?

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That is possible. I could have some kind of improved memcache experience after all the activity of deleting some devices. I had similar good performance for a few days right after the November platform changes.

Loading in 11 seconds flat in three tests just now. :smile: I’m in the same boat as you with regards to actually using the app most of the time. Agree that this should be a top priority as the mobile App represents the majority of the SmartThings experience for most users.

I am seeing that exact same 11 seconds here now, while most of the people in my part of the world are asleep. Still too slow.

Really want to know how this data is culled and transferred (and just how much data we’re talking).

@alex, @mager I have suggested in the past to publish minutes of the developer calls. This is a simple thing to do and would go a long way in keeping us informed.

Not sure this would help us be informed on the company roadmap, it would only help list what the developer call is covering. That being said, just yesterday when the Developer Call was announced, they stated what it was about…

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We did not hear anything new about a road map or end user facing changes. That stuff is going to be announced after CES. The discussions were about developer facing parts of the platform like documentation and tool chain development.

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@alex and @mager (putting you here since might be added to the IDE) - One thing I think would be very helpful for someone trying to figure out their system and when things go “not according to what they thought the plan was” is to make sure the logs show what triggered an event. For example, I show my inside garage light turning on and off, but the logs don’t say what the trigger for that action was. Was it a timeout for motion, timeout for the multi-sensor on the door, perhaps modes changed? Now, I can look through all the smart apps associated with a device and try to troubleshoot, but that can sometimes be tedious if there are a bunch listed and if they are also multi-page setups. By stating the exact trigger, things become immensely easier.

I made a similar request when I was first starting out with ST, but it was a bit more narrow in scope. As people add more devices, their setups become much more complex - as stated in numerous posts above. This causes that troubleshooting or “why did that happen” to be much more complex without something like this.

EDIT - I did look at some more logs in the IDE and see that sometimes it is noted that a Smart App or hello home action triggered it. However, it is not always there. That garage light I was talking about doesn’t tell me who tapped its shoulder!

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@ben shared his (unofficial) roadmap with community two month ago (Oct.1st). Among the things that were expected before the year end were:

  • multi-level user support
  • raw socket (telnet) support
  • nest support

They didn’t happen. Happy New Year everyone!

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@alex - I really appreciate your effort to read and answer a lot of these concerns. I can honestly say I’ve loved Smartthings from the start and based on your comments I really hope to see the startup drive and commitment come back once your team gets setup on the west coast and ready to go again.

In regards to the IDE this is a real problem. I’ve spent the last week or so off from work and programming custom apps to finally get my whole system running like I always felt it could do (honestly have had a fun time doing it).

However, sometime the IDE “save”, “publish”, “install”, and “update” work within seconds and is the best experience ever! Other times (it seems every other hour or so) all the services become extremely slow or unresponsive for ~15-20 minutes. After spending 10’s of hours in the system over the last week this has become extremely frustrating and if I didn’t have as much passion in what I was doing I honestly might have given up.

I truly have fingers crossed that the new focus person overseeing the IDE will help.

Thank you again for your responses the last few days!

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I hope it will include some excited news for existing users who look for new functionality with their existing equipment.

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Having MS it is not Feasible for me to Shake to get the titles in things is there a Diferent way to show them that does not cause me pain Physicaly.

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I am curious as to why SmartThings is still mobile App centric.

What is the reasoning behind not supplying a computer program or Web interface for programing?

The mobile App is good for day to day use but for initial setup and rearranging setups, a bigger system picture would be better.

@alex, you said Hello home can do so much more but the user needs to get comfortable in using, configuring and understanding it’s power. Well, as a user, I am telling you the reason I am uncomfortable with major functions are not because I don’t understand them but more that I can’t see what it does. There is no area where I can see everything and all interactions in one area. I have to play tap and swipe over and over again until I am lost. When I think I have something the way I want it I later find out (usually the hard way) there is a conflict with another rule.

I am sure you and your team have looked at the competition and can see that the better ones play to the strengths of both the mobile app and Computer OS. Just visit the forums of the other brands if you want to hear the truth.

I like SmartThings and I like what is happening in the group. I have many friends with other HA systems (Vera, revolv, self created) and SmartThings is head and shoulders above most of them with the exception of one major weak area… the UI. IMHO, ST has close to the worst UI on the market for customer ease of use.

Why?

ST is leaning too much on a mobile OS for total system interaction!

There are only so many screens, options, menus, submenus, etc… that can be packed into a 5 ish inch screen before information overload happens (or frustration).

I apologize for the above ramblings but I sincerely believe that ST will not become a main stream, common home item until a better, friendlier, “everyday user” focused UI is available. That means point and click ability for all connected devices and routines.

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Wow this post has triggered quite a bit of passionate discussions and since everyone is offering their 2 cents here’s mine . Another thing is whatever I buy from now on is neutral aka Zwave , Zigbee so any hub can work with it. Its easy to swap a hub in case things go south

Things that work

  • The platform overally has been stable for me , I have around 44 devices composed of Wemo’s , Zwave dimmers , Smartthings multi , motions , Sonos and the Rainmachine.
  • After their platform upgrades I have not seen any issues with event processing
  • The most effective way I have found is set up scheduled events for everything , work on the basis of motion sensors , sunset/sunrise timers and Hello Home events
  • The Zwave dimmers from Linear work great and have added 6 of them and have another 6 more to add shortly , each of them since a wall switch acts as a Zwave repeater in itself. These devices work absolutely all the time
  • The Zigbee devices which are the smartthings motion and multi’s work really well with no issues so far with good battery average consumption for now. Most are at 100% some are at 75% after couple of months. These are rock solid too and the response is instantaneous
  • Developers fueling the platform with the new apps , code and device types is the most motivating part of this platform as there is something new everyday to look forward to . Examples like the NEST app by Patrick , the Action Dashboard , the SmartAlarm and the Rainmachine integration being some of the excellent apps developed by the community
  • My app load time is around 5-10 seconds on an Iphone 6 plus mostly around 5-6 seconds

Improvements could be made

I’m not going to repeat what the others have said

  • The wemo integration remains broken which requires removing devices ( and smartapps) and adding them back (which I have done twice now and given up)
  • I have setup the Wemo’s with their own rules in their own ecosystem so its independent of smartthings , since most of it is scheduled I do not miss this integration. I have stopped buying Wemo’s since I have found the Linear Zwave switches and dimmers. The Wemo’s work even if my internet service is down due to the local access to the switches
  • No disconnected mode , assuming this will be addressed with the next version of the hub
  • Lack of an apps marketplace , right now for example the Nest app to get is Patrick’s and not the one in the list of apps. Also unless someone looks at the community boards will not know about smartalarm or Action , some curation is needed like these are the top 10 apps to get

Good luck and looking forward to announcements in CES

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In response to how damn slow the App is to load – to the point that it’s useless as a remote (especially with all the clicks you have to make…):
it would be nice if a second app “Smartthing Remote” was created, which would be SIMPLE/not have all the options and things in it and only have the things you enable/want quick access to (similar to a dashboard, but the real-deal app from ST…).

Add buttons and they would all appear on the homepage of this app (you can create folders if you want), but only for important things, and no bloat where.

So I can click it, and hope for it to quickly load and just show my important light on/off switches and TV control.

Instead of loading the entire ST app/having to scroll through the entire app, make something much more simple and easy to load so that people would actually be able to use their damn phones to control their ST! (after all…isn’t that what you guys are after?)…

You seem to WANT people to use their phones to control things (as you haven’t actually release many physical remotes – besides your FOUR BUTTON aeon remote…) or simple ZWAVE stick on to your wall “remote” with physical buttons to use to control things…you guys appear to be all about the APP which everybody agrees just can’t be used as an actual remote control unless you want to wait a minute for it to load/you to scroll to the proper page.

Oh, and obviously the current state of things needs to be fixed, as it’s soo unreliable – I find myself having to double tap (“turn off” then “turn on”) so many things because ST things they’re on but not on (regardless of the reason…quick polling, etc. should be able to keep track of CURRENT states…).

We all are hoping for sooo many improvements to make us happy in V2 (as it appears that working on V1 has just stopped more or less, and things haven’t changed and are so unreliable), so lets hope you guys have actually been putting a lot of work, and working on all the problems people have been bringing up, on V2 – since we haven’t seen much of anything changing (although being promised things…) for a long time.

Oh…and the addition of a lot more (and cheap) PHYSICAL control devices (like remotes/a ST in-wall or wall mounted easy control panel/sticky (battery powered and not requiring actual power from old switches, or even ones requiring power, “switches” that you can just stick to your wall next to actual switches with multiple actual buttons on them allowing control of anything (sending signal to the HUB and then allowing us to chose one, or many actions to occur on button press) similar to the GE one that is available but only will work as a slave/doesn’t send any commands to the HUB, etc etc etc.

While you guys may have thought the “using your phone as a full remote” and not creating actual buttons to control things was a good idea before, it’s really not. At the least add the abilites and people that wish to take their phone out to do everything can do so…and those who want to just tap a button on their wall and have lights/scenes/anything happen with the ease of tapping a button on their wall, just like flipping a switch, can use it!

People are making nice dashboard and such, but an actual ST “dashboard” wall-mountable device that is developed by ST and looks good/controls things well and implements all the features that users want (hell, create a thread and you will get a million response of what people want) would be great! Allowing an “alarm like” system to be implemented in people homes! A simple “keypad” to be used (indoor/outdoor would be nice) to allow arming/deactivating alarms, or doing anything really based on the code (open garage, unlock a door, etc.) would also be great.

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IMHO, another app is not needed for this. Just add a screen to the existing app with the “simple” remote capability, and have a pref for what screen you want to load at launch.

But with that said, whatever the app is doing that takes so long to load at launch still seriously needs to be revisited. It simply shouldn’t take as long as it does.

I am new to SmartThings, < 1.5 months, but my device list has grown to 32 devices. Though I have noticed performance issues and unreliability in the last couple weeks I will not get into that since everyone else has done a great job expressing those issues.

Instead I would like to whole-heartedly agree with neima1 about the control panels (remotes, buttons, etc.). I can think of more reasons than appropriate to list here why I don’t want to control ST with my phone when I am at home. I want control panels/buttons on my wall in locations I cannot add to a gang box with power and locations I can. I also want control panels/buttons on my table tops. The minimote is ok but have you tried to find and use it in the middle of the night when you are half asleep, it easily gets pushed out of reach so a tabletop switch that will stay where I want it is critical. Initially my thought is that I will buy quite a few of the wall and table button control panels as that is a large piece of my pie that I need and that ST is missing.

You cannot call yourself a Home Automation company unless you have sufficient support for these types of devices (built-in support, not just community user hacked support (though that is an awesome feature we have here)). This will be a main reason why I leave ST for one of their competitors. I have spent a lot of money in the last month getting my environment setup and plan to continue to spend money to get the setup and functionality I’ve been planning for/dreaming about for years.

I will give ST the benefit of the doubt on the performance, reliability and lack of hardware since I am new to the product but that won’t last forever. Please do not make the last 1.5 months a waste of my time.

Thank you

Sean

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I always thought the Wink Relay was a great example of a mounted control device that seems to be consumer friendly (as in very easy to install). And I agree we need to get away from the phone and allow for multi-button controllers. How else can I quickly select which party mode (Jazz, Rock, etc) I want to be in when a whole bunch of people suddenly show up? :smile:

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Ability to add simple “Switch Widgets” to my phone Home screen/desktop would really help with quick control, activating Hello Home phrases etc.

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Wink home controller… Exactly the right result, but too expensive.

Sub-$100 tablets exist: Perhaps low resolution, but sufficient to see Thing status and activate switches, dimmers, and Actions: But the “remote control App” to run on slow cheap devices would have to be processing and memory streamlined. A very worthwhile hardware+software project and there are a few Kickstarter Projects that are aiming at or emphasizing remote control functional hardware (BrightSwitch, if I remember correctly?).

Then again, there are also Projects that focus on voice speech based control or gestures, even though such technology is not likely to provide the simplicity and reliability we desire.