Smart smoke alarms with dumb smoke alarms (EU/Ireland)

Hello,

My new home is currently being built, and I am looking to get a smart smoke alarm for the house. Here is the thing, though: All smoke alarms must talk to one another due to some EU regulations. This is normally done through wiring.

Is there a good smart smoke alarm brand out there that talks with normal smoke alarms?

Check out this article on the web:

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/birdi-smoke-detector

Thanks so much for this article! I do have a use for such detector because hayfever is quite an issue for me!

However:

  • Seems like birdi failed to launch. The article is from 2013 and their website is dead. Ouch! :frowning:
  • Also I was looking to get a smart smoke detector that works communicates with dumb detectors.

I think I might as well suck it up, save some money and then just buy all smart smoke detectors in one go and replace my existing ones :frowning:

1 Like

That sounds like a good idea. As smoke detectors should be replaced anyway after a certain ammount of years. And if you get all smart smoke/co detectors i.e. Kiddei Smoke/CO smart detectors you will know when or if there is a hazerd in your home. I use this one on all the levels in my house.

https://www.amazon.com/First-Alert-Z-Wave-Detector-Monoxide/dp/B00KMHXFAI/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1498054635&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=first+alert+smoke+carbon+zwave+wire

Thanks!

  • Is it z-wave compatible?
  • Any ideas if there is a 220V model?

I had 7 wired smoke detectors that was already setup with the alarm system when I bought my house. I just installed a new Alarm Panel, in this case the Honeywell VIsta 20p which works with the Alarmdecoder AD2Pi. The Ad2Pi allows you to integrate the panel with smartthings for notification and using the SHM. Since you are building the house you can have the alarm panel installed and everything wired in. These system all run a 12V with a single large battery in the alarm panel box, so you would not need to change a bunch of batteries. What also nice is you can use standard alarm type detectors, CO, contact sensors etc. I would imagine this type of setup would satisfy the regulations since they are all interconnected, but I am not sure since I live in the US.

I also setup those First Alert ones, they are battery powered and Z-wave.

Edit: Here is the panel and Ad2Pi.

http://www.alarmdecoder.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/1/products_id/39

https://www.amazon.com/VISTA20P-Ademco-Zone-Control-Panel/dp/B000H05W9C?th=1

I corrected the lin to the Z-wave enabled once.

https://www.amazon.com/First-Alert-Z-Wave-Detector-Monoxide/dp/B00KMHXFAI/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1498054635&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=first+alert+smoke+carbon+zwave+wire.

Folks: please remember that the OP is asking about European devices. US devices are not going to work, not just because of the frequency or voltage, but because engineering requirements for US smoke alarms and UK smoke sensors are different. They also have different beep patterns. ( just as one example, EU devices start soft and gradually increase volume, which is believed to be more effective at waking children; US Devices start loud and stay at a single volume level.)

Please limit responses to devices available in the EU.

I believe @bobbles has looked into smoke sensors for the UK and may be able to say more.

1 Like

Sorry for the confussion:

This product is EU code certified:

https://www.intellihome.be/en/z-wave-plus-fibaro-smoke-sensor-en-14604-standard.html

It’s EU certified, but for some complicated technical reasons only the battery operated version works with the SmartThings (UK version) hub. This has been a topic of discussion in the UK section of the forum since SmartThings was first released in the UK. Other Fibaro devices are on the official “works with SmartThings” list, but the smoke sensor is unfortunately not. :disappointed_relieved:

1 Like

(Because the EU issues and devices are so different from the available US options, I have moved this thread to the UK section of the forum. Hopefully more EU members will join the discussion about possible solutions.)

I just saw @anon36505037 post in another topic, he might also have some ideas. :sunglasses:

1 Like

Actually, I was hoping you might say more about why you were using the Nest protects and if you are integrating them into SmartThings at all or not. :wink:

With serious things like fire alerts and security I wouldn’t trust something cobbled together and reliant on smartthings - it’s just not reliable enough.

Pretty sure in the UK smokes have to be hard wired together to pass building control.

Are you having a wired alarm system installed? As another poster suggested you could hook 12v smokes to that.

Otherwise they’ll be mains ones, and if you get ones with relay terminals you might be able to use one of the ESP8266 projects on the forums to pair them to smartthings but still keep the hard wired reliability.

1 Like

I never considered non-hardwired detectors. Here is the same thing: They must all talk to oneanother.

Nest uses its own proprietary protocol, “nest weave.” While similar to the open standard weave, which is based on the nest protocol, there are some differences.

1 Like

I just did that for about $43 in my house. I’m in the US but they all work the same.

Smoke / CO detectors have 3 wires, neutral and hot for power and a common wire to trigger the other detectors in the house, it’s red in the US.

I used a $13 Kiddie smoke alarm relay like this one

and a z-wave dry contact like this one

On the relay you won’t use the gray and yellow wires for this application.

To one of the smoke detectors (I used my basement unit so I did not care about hiding the relay like I would inside the house), wire the black (hot) wire from the relay with the black of your smoke alarm system, the white from the relay (neutral) to the white of your system and the red from the relay (common trigger) to the red of your system.

Then wire the blue wire from the relay (common) and the orange wire (rather salmon color) (Normally open) to the T1 and T2 connections of the dry contact (or T2 and T1, order does not matter)

In Smartthings create a (or several) custom smartapp within the Smart Home Monitor that will send you an SMS when the smoke alarm is triggered (hopefully you will never receive one). You can add other rules to that trigger, such as turning on all your lights, shutting off your furnace (I do that via the Ecobee DTH), turn on your bathroom fan to pull smoke out, turn on an outside strobe light and siren (I have that using a SmartThings plug), etc… Using the same principle, a relay (I like using the ELK-912 relay) and a dry contact, I have SmartThings triggers on a gate entry detection and a few other things.

It’s nice because it could potentially save your house from a bigger disaster as you can call the fire department right away before someone else realizes your house is engulfed in flames while you are not home.

6 Likes

Brilliant!!! Been waiting for a solution to the lack of integration between brands of detectors. I like the halos but the fact that it won’t trigger other alarms is a huge problem for me.

1 Like

Having a smoke alarm at home is a wise decision to make. I have adorned my smart home with the best smoke detector from Nest. It is competent to recognize smoke as well as carbon monoxide. You must check it out once.

It is mandatory in the US and I think it is now in EU as well, more than a wise decision, it is a life saver.

I would not make any assumptions that something that is either possible or legal in the US with regard to either wiring or smoke alarms will also be legal/possible in the UK.

UK does not assume that most electrical work can be done on a DIY basis the way the US does.

There are relay devices With a similar function, but you can’t use the one that was linked to and meet UK safety codes.

Instead, you have to buy smoke sensors which are designed to have the ability to have a relay added, And there will be a relay piece specifically for the purpose of connecting to external systems, and it will generally slot into the smoke sensor itself, not into the mains.

Here is just one typical example:

https://www.ivoryegg.co.uk/product_guides/configuring-the-gira-smoke-detectors-with-an-additional-relay-or-knx-module

There are lots of these, so you just have to check the specific brand and model of smoke sensor you are interested in.

Community members from the US should be aware that these kinds of issues come up frequently in the UK discussions, so please only recommend specific devices if you have verified that they meet code in the UK. :sunglasses: