Smart smoke alarms with dumb smoke alarms (EU/Ireland)

smoke

#1

Hello,

My new home is currently being built, and I am looking to get a smart smoke alarm for the house. Here is the thing, though: All smoke alarms must talk to one another due to some EU regulations. This is normally done through wiring.

Is there a good smart smoke alarm brand out there that talks with normal smoke alarms?


#2

Check out this article on the web:

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/birdi-smoke-detector


#3

Thanks so much for this article! I do have a use for such detector because hayfever is quite an issue for me!

However:

  • Seems like birdi failed to launch. The article is from 2013 and their website is dead. Ouch! :frowning:
  • Also I was looking to get a smart smoke detector that works communicates with dumb detectors.

I think I might as well suck it up, save some money and then just buy all smart smoke detectors in one go and replace my existing ones :frowning:


#4

That sounds like a good idea. As smoke detectors should be replaced anyway after a certain ammount of years. And if you get all smart smoke/co detectors i.e. Kiddei Smoke/CO smart detectors you will know when or if there is a hazerd in your home. I use this one on all the levels in my house.

https://www.amazon.com/First-Alert-Z-Wave-Detector-Monoxide/dp/B00KMHXFAI/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1498054635&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=first+alert+smoke+carbon+zwave+wire


#5

Thanks!

  • Is it z-wave compatible?
  • Any ideas if there is a 220V model?

#6

I had 7 wired smoke detectors that was already setup with the alarm system when I bought my house. I just installed a new Alarm Panel, in this case the Honeywell VIsta 20p which works with the Alarmdecoder AD2Pi. The Ad2Pi allows you to integrate the panel with smartthings for notification and using the SHM. Since you are building the house you can have the alarm panel installed and everything wired in. These system all run a 12V with a single large battery in the alarm panel box, so you would not need to change a bunch of batteries. What also nice is you can use standard alarm type detectors, CO, contact sensors etc. I would imagine this type of setup would satisfy the regulations since they are all interconnected, but I am not sure since I live in the US.

I also setup those First Alert ones, they are battery powered and Z-wave.

Edit: Here is the panel and Ad2Pi.

http://www.alarmdecoder.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/1/products_id/39

https://www.amazon.com/VISTA20P-Ademco-Zone-Control-Panel/dp/B000H05W9C?th=1


#7

I corrected the lin to the Z-wave enabled once.

https://www.amazon.com/First-Alert-Z-Wave-Detector-Monoxide/dp/B00KMHXFAI/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1498054635&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=first+alert+smoke+carbon+zwave+wire.


#8

Folks: please remember that the OP is asking about European devices. US devices are not going to work, not just because of the frequency or voltage, but because engineering requirements for US smoke alarms and UK smoke sensors are different. They also have different beep patterns. ( just as one example, EU devices start soft and gradually increase volume, which is believed to be more effective at waking children; US Devices start loud and stay at a single volume level.)

Please limit responses to devices available in the EU.

I believe @bobbles has looked into smoke sensors for the UK and may be able to say more.


#9

Sorry for the confussion:

This product is EU code certified:

https://www.intellihome.be/en/z-wave-plus-fibaro-smoke-sensor-en-14604-standard.html


#10

It’s EU certified, but for some complicated technical reasons only the battery operated version works with the SmartThings (UK version) hub. This has been a topic of discussion in the UK section of the forum since SmartThings was first released in the UK. Other Fibaro devices are on the official “works with SmartThings” list, but the smoke sensor is unfortunately not. :disappointed_relieved:


#11

(Because the EU issues and devices are so different from the available US options, I have moved this thread to the UK section of the forum. Hopefully more EU members will join the discussion about possible solutions.)

I just saw @RobinWinbourne post in another topic, he might also have some ideas. :sunglasses:


(Robin) #12

Sorry, I’ve got nothing really to add, I use a Nest Protect for my smoke alarm.

I have previously read the thread about only the battery option being available for smartthings… I thought about suggesting that you jerry-rig reduced mains power to the battery terminals, but then you would lose the battery back up, so obviously not an option :frowning:


#13

Actually, I was hoping you might say more about why you were using the Nest protects and if you are integrating them into SmartThings at all or not. :wink:


(Robin) #14

I have a single nest protect, and it’s integrated with Smartthings using NST manager.

I was naughty and did a real smoke test with some burning newspaper in a metal can (not too good for the sensor but I needed to know it would work) and the integration does work, however there is a delay of up to 30 seconds as NST manager only pings the Nest service every 30 seconds.

Benefit of using the Fibaro is that it has adjustable sensitivity and is therefore great for use in kitchens and the like… However because the mains powered version is not currently integratable with ST I would never consider it.


(Meza) #15

With serious things like fire alerts and security I wouldn’t trust something cobbled together and reliant on smartthings - it’s just not reliable enough.

Pretty sure in the UK smokes have to be hard wired together to pass building control.

Are you having a wired alarm system installed? As another poster suggested you could hook 12v smokes to that.

Otherwise they’ll be mains ones, and if you get ones with relay terminals you might be able to use one of the ESP8266 projects on the forums to pair them to smartthings but still keep the hard wired reliability.


#16

I never considered non-hardwired detectors. Here is the same thing: They must all talk to oneanother.


(Robin) #17

They don’t have to be hard wired together, it can be a wireless link… but, in the U.K. at least, we do have to have them all hard wired to the mains.

The Nest Protects use, I think, wifi to link together which is compliant. Not sure if they use Bluetooth to link together as well? (The Nest app uses Bluetooth for setup etc. So maybe?)

The Fibaro’s use proprietary alarm frames. Not exactly direct association but the end result is similar in that one alarm sets of the others without needing a hub, internet or mains power.


#18

Nest uses its own proprietary protocol, “nest weave.” While similar to the open standard weave, which is based on the nest protocol, there are some differences.


#19

I just did that for about $43 in my house. I’m in the US but they all work the same.

Smoke / CO detectors have 3 wires, neutral and hot for power and a common wire to trigger the other detectors in the house, it’s red in the US.

I used a $13 Kiddie smoke alarm relay like this one

and a z-wave dry contact like this one

On the relay you won’t use the gray and yellow wires for this application.

To one of the smoke detectors (I used my basement unit so I did not care about hiding the relay like I would inside the house), wire the black (hot) with the black of your system, the white (neutral) to the white of your system and the red (common trigger) to the red.

Then wire the blue (common) and the orange (rather salmon color) (Normally open) to the T1 and T2 connections of the dry contact.

In Smartthings create a (or several) custom smartapp within the Smart Home Monitor that will send you an SMS when the smoke alarm is triggered (hopefully you will never receive one). You can add other rules to that trigger, such as turning on all your lights, shutting off your furnace (I do that via the Ecobee DTH), turn on your bathroom fan to pull smoke out, turn on an outside strobe light and siren, etc…

It’s nice because it could potentially save your house from a bigger disaster as you can call the fire department right away before someone else realizes your house is engulfed in flames while you are not home.


Smoke/CO Z Wave?
Halo Smart Smoke Detector
Pre Sale questions
#20

Brilliant!!! Been waiting for a solution to the lack of integration between brands of detectors. I like the halos but the fact that it won’t trigger other alarms is a huge problem for me.