New app + local processing = problem?

I’m in the process of switching over from classic to the new app.
I deleted the routines from the classic app and replaced them with automations in the new app and everything was working very nicely.
Until I experienced an outage with my internet.

To my dismay, once the internet went down, all my devices went offline and all my associated automations failed.
In the past everything used to work still, even if the internet was down.
I use only ‘official’ supported devices (mostly Samsung smartthings devices), and associated smartapps (mostly smart lighting), which all used to run locally.

Although my home wifi network was still up and working and I could access the app, I was unable to operate my devices or make any changes with the app.
I have smart lights everywhere in the house so this was extremely inconvenient because the motion activation didn’t work and I couldn’t turn anything on or off manually by using the smartthings app.

I decided to take a look at the IDE.
I haven’t looked at the IDE for a while.
My stuff has been working so I’ve had no need.
I was surprised to see the IDE still shows my routines, although I deleted them with the classic app???
And where on earth do I find the automations that I made in the new app to replace the routines?
All but three of my devices listed in the IDE say that they execute locally so I’m confused as to why they didn’t work during the recent internet outage.
Is the information on the IDE out of date?
It seems that the IDE doesn’t work with the new app?

I have three states for the lighting in my house.
‘Home’ is the daytime setting and motion activated lights are disabled.
I created an automation in the new app which sets the location mode to ‘Home’ at sunrise.

At sunset, another automation sets the location mode to ‘Night’.
The lights operate on detected motion and they’re bright, when mode is ‘Night’.

At 11pm another automation triggers and sets the mode to ‘late night’, which is just the same as ‘Night’ apart from the lights are dimmer.

My recent internet outage began at 1:30pm and lasted just over 24 hours.
I had no access to any of my devices, automations, or smartapps during the outage.
I’m still not certain why my lights didn’t work.
All I can think of is that my hub may have been stuck in ‘Home’ mode and could not switch to ‘Night’ because switching location mode requires the cloud?

I’m trying to find a way to achieve what I had with the classic app, basically, automated lights which operate on motion detection, only at night, even in the event of an internet outage.
Hopefully this is still possible?

Thanks for any help or advice.

Neither the classic app or the new app has ever worked when it does not have access to the internet. The apps require internet access.

Scenes and Automations are not visible in the IDE. I believe that this is because they are not groovy based, but I could be mistaken about this point. At this time, I don’t believe that there is anywhere they can be viewed. As for why your deleted routines are still visible in the IDE, I don’t have an answer.

As far as I know, mode execution requires access to the cloud.

2 Likes

As @oldcomputerwiz said, neither the classic app nor mode changes have ever worked locally.

The only thing that worked locally are some parts of smart lighting and some parts of smart home monitor. And then only if the individual devices were eligible to run locally. No custom code ever ran locally.

I’m trying to find a way to achieve what I had with the classic app, basically, automated lights which operate on motion detection, only at night, even in the event of an internet outage.
Hopefully this is still possible?

This should still be possible as long as you are using exactly the same devices with the same device type handlers and you have it set up using smart lighting in the new app. It should work exactly the same as it did in the classic app. :sunglasses:

So it sounds like you probably had some smart lighting automations in the classic app which you converted to just regular automations in the new V3 app.

If instead you convert them to smart lighting automations in the new V3 app then you should have the same local processing you had previously.

September 2020 update: all of the above is still true except that community members have been reporting that the new security feature, smartthings home monitor (STHM) does not appear to have any local processing options, unlike the classic security feature, smart home monitor (SHM). I have not seen official confirmation one way or the other on this.

2 Likes

BTW, I thought “ sunrise” and “sunset” don’t work locally in either app, but maybe I’m wrong on that.

If I am wrong, then it’s quite possible that they were only working locally for one day because they need to get the next day’s sunrise and sunset from the cloud. So you might also have run into that given the length of the outage. :disappointed_relieved:

Smartthings is still primarily a cloud-based system, regardless of which version of the app you are using.

If you have frequent Internet outages and you don’t want to switch to a different brand of hub, then the safest thing is not to use modes or sunset, but to use rules based on time of day. “If motion is detected between 5 PM and 7 AM, turn on this light“ should be able to work locally as long as the device is eligible to work locally and you create the automation through smartlighting.

Granted, your lights might turn on with motion for an extra hour or two at some times of the year, but things will still work if your Internet is out. The app won’t, though. it always needs to the cloud.

4 Likes

Thanks for the replies.
So, the mode changes were preventing the local processing from working.

I think sunrise and sunset must have worked locally somehow before, at any rate, I’ve had internet outages in the past and my lights always came on.
I think the ‘automations’ engine is a disappointing replacement for the old ‘routines’ of the classic app.

My smartthings were certainly a lot smarter a year or two ago, before Samsung withdrew support for my cameras and before this two app nonsense started.

As a short term solution, I’m going to try the time based smart lighting rules suggested by JD. (Thanks).

Longer term, I’m wondering if a lux sensor could solve the problem of when and how to activate the motion sensor lights, as I don’t really want the lights coming on in the middle of the afternoon and I’d rather not have to keep adjusting the timing in the smart lighting rule.
Anyone know of a lux sensor that’ll work with smartthings local processing?

1 Like

Hey Chris,

I have a device aeotec multisensor that executes locally but when I added the lux value to my smart lighting automation’s I think I remember it saying in small print that the automation will no longer run locally if I use the lux value so to answer your question unfortunately no I don’t think you can use it for local processing. I tried to make as many automation’s local as I could as the lag was noticeable if I didn’t. I went with the time value as that kept it local. I think it actually tells you when you are setting up the smart lighting automation what options stop it from running locally.

Hope this helps
Cheers

If you don’t use the stock DTH applied when a device joins, it won’t run locally. Any edit will change it to cloud execution.

Sunrise and sunset triggers or guards for SmartLighting rules will run locally, and they will work with loss of connectivity longer than a day. The values are calculated from the lat/long set on the location.

I believe that any rule you can make in SmartLighting will run locally if all the devices run locally. If there are exceptions to this, let me know. Even if the automation is set to run “only in mode X” it will run locally, but without internet connection the local mode will never change, so it will continue to act as if it is in whatever mode the location was in when it was last connected to the cloud.

As for the new “automations” created using the app, currently nothing will run locally. But as announced at SDC that is something that is being actively worked on.

4 Likes

SmartLighting Automations based on mode changes won’t run locally Because the mode change won’t happen locally.

That is, it may technically execute locally but since it won’t receive the mode change information the results will not be as desired.

The Same thing would be true for scenes with mode changes.

I don’t know if scenes themselves are eligible to run locally yet or not.

1 Like

Ah, fair point, I was thinking more from an engineering perspective of where the code would execute. You may get some latency benefits, but since the mode change still needs to be synced from the cloud they would be minor.

This is a good exception to call out, that I didn’t think of. If you use a scene, even if all the devices in that scene run locally, the rule will not currently run locally.

2 Likes