Lights turn off while I'm still in the room

(Travis Muszynski) #1

I have used several apps to try to to get a lamp to consistently turn on with motion. Im currently using Rule Machine. If I’m in the room for a long time, the light will sometimes turn off, even when there is still motion. When I move around it wont turn back on until I move in front of another motion sensor that controls the same lamp.

Other times the light wont turn on at all because the motion sensor hasn’t cleared from the last motion event.

In other situations the light doesn’t turn off at all.

Can someone please explain the logic of the motion sensor/light relationship?

(The fish is still dead.) #2

The logic is sound, the platform is not. Scheduled events right now are in a pretty flaky state.

(Geko) #3

You have to make sure that your “lights off after motion stops” event is delayed by more than the motion sensor’s re-arming delay. In this case, new motion will be detected before the “lights off” timer is expired and will cancel it, resulting in the lights staying on. Still, this will not prevent the lights from turning off if you sit absolutely still long enough. I usually set the “lights off” delay to 10 minutes, which works quite well in most cases (e.g. kitchen, laundry room, closet, bathroom).

(RH) #4

I think you’re exactly right. I have 2 motion sensor/light setups that work perfectly but obviously there needs to be discernible motion. Your just breathing won’t cut it! Anyway, mine are setup in Smart Rules. I just added the second one today along with a GE ST compatible wall switch to power the light either directly or when triggered by the motion sensor. All items worked the first time I set it up and paired instantly with no issues. Echo found the new items with find my devices no problem. . My ofttimes for my lights is only 2 minutes because I’m always moving when in the garage so the light isn’t timing out. Also, the switch can override the motion sensor.

(Travis Muszynski) #5

I figured out that my motion sensors take 4 min to time out. I will set all my delay off times to 5 min once the android app is functioning again.

(Travis Muszynski) #6

Ok, I have a cree bulb that is controled using Rule Machine and two Schlage motion sensors with a condition of below 92 lux. One motion sensor is in the kitchen and one in another room. The off delay is set for 14 min. If I stay in the kitchen, moving with no interruption in motion for 14 min, the light will turn off. It will not turn back on until it sees “new” motion, either the motion sensor resets or I walk into the other room.

This doesn’t seem right.

(RH) #7

That is odd. I would try this, if I can explain it well enough. Look at the status of that device in your app in the things section. Trigger the motion detector. There’s often a short delay in the app status so ignore that for now. Now leave the area to avoid motion. Does the motion detector update to show no motion? If no, the updating from the sensor may be laggy or just wrong. If it says no motion, walk back in and see if the new motion is sensed. If yes, I would suspect a flaw in my rule for teiggering and rethink it. Again, this is what I would do. I’m sure you’ll get another, and more likely better, answer. Don’t give up!

(Ben W) #8

When motion is detected an event is sent, same when motion is not detected. The delay is how long it waits once motion is no longer detected before turning out the lights.

If a motion sensor has a 5 minute reset period, and you have a 5 minute delay, it could take up to 10 minutes before the light turns off.

I do agree that motion detectors need a large amount of motion. Sitting on the couch often causes a no motion event.

What motion sensor are you using? Some are better than others.

(Travis Muszynski) #9

I’m using Schlage motion sensors. When the light turns off, the motion sensor is still detecting motion. When I leave the room for 5 min or so, it does indicate no motion. If I walk back into the room, the light will turn back on.

(Ben W) #10

No experience with the Schlage, do you have any others? I am wondering if that delay of 4 minutes is causing issues. There could also be built in logic not to trigger another event right away.

You can check the IDE and see what events are being sent. I am guessing there might be delays in the app updating, but the backend should have it.

With rule machines use Conditions and not Triggers. I have had better success with that. I also thought there was a setting if false switches to true during the timeout period but cant find it now.

I am using the Iris motion in my kitchen ($28 or so) and been having decent success. Using Smart Lighting. I used rule machine before and got about the same results. I am thinking about using both at the same time.

(Ben W) #11

Just tried using rule machine and I was experiencing the same issues you had. Try Smart Lighting and see if it is more accurate.

(Travis Muszynski) #12

I believe smart lighting doesnt sopport illumination sensors and motion.

(Ben W) #13

Yes you can only choose motion or illumination. I was just recommending to see if it works better. When I used Rule Machine this morning, it turned off 2 or 3 times while we where in the kitchen.

My luminance sensor sucks, reports super low so I don’t use it. You can also do sunrise/sunset times.

Smart Lighting is also able to run locally, which with default device types makes it work fairly well.

Still Rule Machine is super nice for the flexibility of the rules. I have many rules for time based events in there that work great.

(Travis Muszynski) #14

Anyone see anything wrong with the way I set this up?

(RH) #15

OK, I know nothing about rule machine so feel free to ignore or ridicule this idea. Instead of that last statement for false actions, what if you set up another separate rule to turn the light off making the light and motion conditions turn off the light? So you’d lose the false rule and have a separate rule for turning off the light. I know the difference may be subtle, or in fact, my logic might be totally defective, but that’s what I would try.

(Ben W) #16

Looks like I had it, and I was having similar issues. @rudyinDana may have the right idea to create 2 rules, kinda messy.

I would use Trigger motion with conditional luminance. Worth a shot.

(RH) #17

I agree that separate rules to accomplish what humans think of as one task is messy. Seems that none of the rule assistants currently, or Smartthings as it exists, can have multiple stacked conditions=results. They pile on as opposed to unique events. I’m not explaining myself very well but It doesn’t matter anyway. It is what it is.

(Travis Muszynski) #18

I had the exact same thought about 45 min ago and I have been testing it. We’ll see if it helps. Logically it makes sense.

(RH) #19

Let us know either way. We won’t give up if you don’t!

(Travis Muszynski) #20

If I can get all of my lights to behave the way they should I will be pretty pleased with my system. Well, that and getting my dashboard back. :frowning: