Kwikset 914 Zigbee or Zwave Z-wave?


(Tim) #1

Which should I get with the LEAST amount of problems and reports when locked / unlocked etc? Most ST support or options? Basically the one that JUST WORKS versus the iffy one you regret buying?

I have been reading MANY reviews and still not sure. I hear some locks don’t properly work with ST, or report properly etc…I want to obviously AVOID those.

Just 1 for the front door where the ST is a room or so over from it. Also looking at the Schlage Camelot, but won’t match our existing Kwikset handles etc. I also like I can use our same key with the Kwikset, not sure I can do that with the Schlage without changing tumblers etc??? : / Don’t want to do all that. The 916 I am ruling out since lock facing the sun most of the time and the black touchscreen I hear will degrade quickly. hear it’s finicky also, and slow wake up, pin entry, etc etc. eats batteries I hear also. But then again, these are all reviews and who really knows. I don’t like the looks of the Yales, which I am sure are quite fine…but also limiting purchase options I am seeing. Pretty set on the Kwikset 914 given my conditions.

Thank you as usual for your help!

Z-wave
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Kwikset-Z-Wave-SmartCode-914-Satin-Nickel-Single-Cylinder-Electronic-Deadbolt-featuring-SmartKey-914TRL-ZW-15-UL/206388644

Zigbee (DID NOT PURCHASE)

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kwikset-SmartCode-914-Smartkey-Satin-Nickel-Single-Cylinder-Motorized-Electronic-Entry-Door-Deadbolt-with-Keypad-Featuring-Zigbee/1000221213

UPDATE (4/29/18):
Purchased the Kwikset 914 Smartcode Satin Nickel from Home Depot online 4/25, received quick 4/27…I feel quicker than Amazon and FREE SHIPPING and HASSLE-FREE instore returns if need be. Home Depot is great.

Is was a VERY simple install except for 1 thing which I will explain later. (there a couple other things also).
Removed prior Kwikset dumb deadbolt lock assembly. 2 screws from inside turn knob, then remaining 2 wood screws from latch. Funny thing, the latch assembly appeared a higher more solid quality I feel. But still replaced with latch that came with it so I wouldn’t have any unforeseen problems if not by doing so. I re-used the LONGER wood screws for the latch, as the ones that came with it were much shorter?

Since the existing cutout mounting holes were pretty standard, it was a easy replacement without having to make holes larger, moving etc… that would be a real headache. Left larger, better striker plate in place in door frame…no need to remove and replace with smaller one. Was also deep enough for latch to enter.

Followed paper instructions even though a youtube video making it even easier.

ONLY PROBLEM I HAD WAS STEP 13 where you must make sure the “turnpiece shaft” shaped like a arrow or triangle MUST POINT UP. Is was not, so put the M piece cover with knob back on and “forced” slightly to turn it and get the TRIANGLE facing up…which apparently is the proper way after Tech Support called back…that is what they were going to suggest. Once you turn it, it will “click” properly facing up.

It was easy performing the Z-wave inclusion which you do no more than 12" at the HUB before assembling the rest. No big deal at all.

After installing everything, I noticed the turn knob was a little tight.

So backed things up a bit and sprayed some WD40 on all the moving parts just to make sure, seemed to help, but still wasn’t quite right.
The problem ended up being the BOTTOM hex screw of the total of (3) hex screws that holds the inside cover on. If you torque to tight, the knob for some reason is harder to turn manually. Loosened and was solved.
But really, this is an absolutely terrible design route. (3) hex screws to remove cover each and every time just to replace the batteries and adjust dip switches for other features, and the buttons inside to create codes (may be able to do this in smartapps) and include/exclude device.

This is probably the worst thing about this lock (and may be with their others?). Otherwise the lock is just fine and happy with it. I will probably dread changing the batteries using the hex wrench and (3) hex screws each and every time, but something to just get used to. The Schlage probably was a better purchase and probably just uses a regular Philips head to change batteries probably. Again, not a deal breaker, but that is something that could have been different if designed properly.

Keypad lights up green and red and also has sound and autolock (not default, have to open up and dip switch or use smartapp method). these things can all be toggled using internal dipswitches). dipswitches a pain I guess, but not a dealbreaker for me.

The SmartKey ReKey was VERY SIMPLE…scary simple. just push the rekey tool in the hole, and follow the instructions…but hey, can now use the original keys that came with the new house and all the other locks. No need to have rekeyed by locksmith.

Everything controls in SmartThings as it should and reports properly even if MANUALLY locked and UNLOCKED. No problem here which I had intial worry from other posts…they probably just didn’t do things right.

Reason I chose the Kwikset 914 over 916. Our do faces intense sun most of the day. I do not see the BLACK keypad touchscreen holding up after even 6 months. Did not like the appearance of a big black rectangle on the front of my door also, needed inconspicuous as possible and to MATCH out our existing Kwikset handle etc. I also heard that the 916 isn’t really ready for primetime? a wake up delay before you can enter the code to open etc…sometimes doesn’t take etc… just things I read, enough to look further.

I didn’t get the Schlage Connect Camelot either due to the black touch screen…probably better and hold up better than the Kwikset 916, but didn’t want to chance that given our conditions. I also read that the right side of numbers no longer worked for someone, so didn’t want to risk that either. The Schlage Satin Nickel obviously being a different manufacturer isn’t quite the same as our other Kwickset locks etc. I also didn’t want a big black touch screen on the front of our door…fine if modern contemporary home or commercial office…but not an typical elegant style “home”. If it weren’t for all of this, I would have chose the Schlage definitely as number 1 choice. I am sure their process of replacing batteries has to be better that the Kwikset 914 which I have already described) The Yales apparently are good to, but really hate the aesthetics of their locks (prob fine modern home or comm. office)…couldn’t find anything local even in a large city to compare it… just really ruled them out pretty quickly…sure they are great…but not for me.

As for those 2-3 things about the Kwikset 914, I am quite happy with it so far. Instructions say battery life 1 year if activated 10 times or so daily…i don’t how true that is, but I bet I may get 6 months like others say and some 3 months which to me is terrible. They may have a physical lock binding issue or not oiled up or something else. If I get even 6 monthes, I’ll be happy. I am not expecting much from 4 AA alkaline batteries… they say don’t use rechargeable which I fully agree…just like other devices that need LONG battery life use… rechargeable are great for quick fast juice like RC cars! ; )

Hope this helps!


#2

The Schlage and Yale locks are better locks than the Kwikset ( based on third-party standards) , but the Kwikset are a good budget brand.

The FAQ has more details. It’s about a-year-old but everything there still applies. It just doesn’t cover the August pro option since it was introduced last year. ( this is a clickable link)

Personally, for a lock I would choose Z wave over zigbee. You won’t have to worry about potential Wi-Fi interference, and a lot of people like to boost Wi-Fi in that area so they can run a Wi-Fi doorbell or camera.

As far as one that “just works reliably,” nothing does with SmartThings, really. Just search the forum for “reliability” or see the following topic:

The platform itself has had at least one outage in every month for the last 20 months except, I believe, January 2017. And sometimes more than one. The locks themselves are all decent locks and you would still be able to unlock them from the keypad, but your automations may not work during outages.

I myself had problems, reported in the forum, with a lock that would just randomly unlock due to the SmartThings platform. Support worked with me, but we were not able to fix it. I moved it to a different Z wave controller and the problems all went away.

The company says they are making improved reliability a top priority, but they’ve been saying that for two years and the frequency of outages has not changed much over that time. There’s still something every two or three weeks. The bugs don’t affect everyone every time, but it’s a significant difference between, say, Phillips hue or HomeKit. Smartthings is a very powerful system, but definitely not “set and forget” at the present time.

http://thingsthataresmart.wiki/index.php?title=Bug:_First_Reports


(Tim) #3

Thank you JD, you are ALWAYS so helpful!

Which model lock do you have that “was” giving you problems so I can consider that also? Good point about Z-wave. When looking around lately, seems MOST locks available are Z-wave… but notice the ZigBee option also… is ZigBee something being offered to locks recently? Were Z-wave more common before ZigBee, speaking locks? Just wondering why the (2) different options…but you do make a good point about the z-wave.

I read that some locks, not sure zwave or ZigBee, but they do not report properly to ST? i.e. if the door is locked / or unlocked… want to AVOID those ones.

Thank you.


#4

Last things first: any smart lock can fail to report to the Hub either because of a range issue, or because smartthings is being flaky,

Have you had a chance to read the FAQ on wireless range? Start with post 11 in that thread, read it, then go back up to the top of the thread and it should answer most of those questions:

As far as zigbee versus zwave, zigbee has been very popular with the expensive high-end professionally installed Systems like control 4, but those installers have a lot of network mapping tools that we don’t have with SmartThings.

For those using inexpensive DIY systems like smartthings, in the US Z wave has definitely been more popular for fixed location Devices like locks and light switches. It’s just easier once you take Wi-Fi interference out of the picture.

The lock that I had was a high-quality lock that worked fine with SmartThings for over a year, then it started opening randomly for about three weeks, I took it off of SmartThings and put it on Wink and it worked fine again. I moved it back to SmartThings and again it started randomly opening, moved it back to Wink and the problems went away. It wasn’t the lock model causing The issue, so I don’t want to list it and create any kind of negative for that particular lock. It wasn’t the lock. :wink:


(Tim) #5

thank you JD. Yes, I understand that NOTHING isn’t 100%…and don’t rely on that… otherwise I would NEVR get on a airplane.

I just want to make sure I am not getting a “BAD” model from other’s experienced beyond wifi range etc etc…I realize that nothing is perfect. I am just ruling or weeding out models to at least get to the “decent” ones…that may work fine for the MOST part. Yes, ST is NOT what I ever thought it would be even after research… seemed such a good choice since so widely popular…but then again…like you say, so many things that were “supposed” be taken care off for years and still NOT. That is my BIGGEST disappointments with ST. i.e. Android Presence totally unreliable , NO built in standard delay, no cellular backup, etc etc. (yes, I know, ST isn’t a TRUE security system and the small type doens;t claim to be, but many are using it this way nonetheless) But for the most part ST is terribly bad… just the common sense features that should have already been incorporated by now…especially since other systems have been showing up that do and giving ST a run for their money.

thank you JD as usual!


(Sully) #6

I’ve got a Kwikset 912. The only caution I’d give is that you may have to be willing to contact them for a warranty replacement.

The 912 Z-Wave, not sure about the 914’s, have some that just don’t work right (you can check reviews on Amazon to see what I mean). The first lock I got was eating batteries, and it would randomly stop talking to ST. I could open it with a code, but not through ST. About five months in, it just stopped working with ST at all. I contacted Kwikset, and they were very easy to work with. They had me (re)do some basic troubleshooting, and they sent me a lock. It took about 2-3 weeks for the lock to arrive (some of that may have been the holiday rush), but when it did, I’ve had it hooked up with a single set of batteries for almost five months now. It’s worked flawlessly (when ST has been on its game :grin:).

On the plus side, I do like Kwikset because I could re-key it to match the keys for the rest of my house. That was part of the reason I went with it.

Hope that helps!


#7

@rboy has a paid lock manager smartapp which is very popular and he has done a lot of research into many different lock models while developing it. He may have more advice on specific models, but I would think as long as you stick to a Z wave model which is on the official “works with SmartThings” list, and you follow the recommendations in the wireless range FAQ, you should have the fewest problems.

I personally prefer the better engineered models, so I don’t use Kwikset, but it’s a good budget Brand and popular with those who don’t think the difference in build quality is worth the difference in price.


(Tim) #8

one of the reason I also want to go with Kwikset, so 1 key. I know all the brands have good and bad… I don’t ever expect everything to be perfect, that really wears you out, but should work for the MOST PART.

Thanks jsulliweb for your input, much appreciated… ; )


(Tim) #9

thank you JD. I am between Kwikset 914 and Schlage Camelot… but the Schalge doesn’t match the rest of the current hardware… it’s not the same Satin Nickel as the Kwikset so it will look “different and odd”…so can’t make wife happy as usual due to these differences. She doesn’t like the big black number touchpad either… can’t win. it’s facing the sun constantly, and I am also afraid the BLACK touchscreen will give me problems.

Good points to use what is on the list which these are… I’ll look for z-wave locks.


#10

If you don’t need a keypad on the outside, the August pro three is worth considering. Your exterior hardware remains exactly the same. outside hardware remains exactly the same. Then on the interior of the door there is just a round device that turns the deadbolt turnbolt. This communicates with a plug-in bridge which has the Z wave radio. It’s a well engineered lock, works well, and if you happen to have an iOS phone it will also work with HomeKit, giving you a back up In case SmartThings is out.

It does cost more, but if aesthetics matter a lot it’s a good solution, and then the direct sunlight becomes irrelevant since there is no mechanism on the exterior.

http://august.com/products/august-smart-lock-wifi/


(www.rboyapps.com - Make your home your butler!) #11

It sounds like you know what you’re looking for. Kiwkset is a great budget lock, the only point to keep in mind is that some folks have reported the Z-Wave/Zigbee module giving trouble after about a year usually leading to high battery drain. The easy solution would be to replace it if that happens.

Here’s a little table we put together that compares the features of various lock brands (specifics may vary for each model but a high level overview) (click on the image):


(Tim) #12

your such a smart fella JD! ; )


(Tim) #13

thank you RBoy!!!


(John Roguetech) #14

Going to totally ignore all your questions and answer one you didn’t ask instead. (I’m shopping for locks too, and have no answers for any asked.)

The thing I’ve been taking into consideration with my research is that electronic locks are adding potential security weaknesses. If my network, SmartThings, Hue, etc., are hacked, then my house would be wide open. I’ve resigned myself to be okay with that, if it’s a trade-off. Traditional locks are pathetically easy to bump, pick, drill, break or otherwise defeat. I’m not willing to take an unsecure paradigm and add on top that some kid in Czechia could hack my house and sell it to the (online) crack head, but I’ll trade one for the other. In short, I’ll be going keyless.

The main issue I have with that (which I’m also shopping around for), is having a back-up. If sh…stuff goes wrong, I don’t want to stuck outside with spoiling groceries, trying to figure out which window will be the cheapest to replace. Battery life is obviously important, but also make certain there’s a backup power system. Most have terminals to connect an external battery. Then, at least it’s on me for having to figure out which window to break to get inside to find another battery, because I forgot to put a spare one somewhere outside.


(www.rboyapps.com - Make your home your butler!) #15

Couple of thoughts on security and locked out:

  1. Check out the Schlage BE469 which has an excellent tamper alarm built in for this purpose, it’s sensitivity range is enormous - from the slightest touch on the door to some trying to break down the door - (e.g. we use the Schlage Alarm Mode app to change the sensitivity for different modes, while at home, very sensitive so I know if someone is at the door and at away it’s higher so is someone’s tampering with it it will set off an alarm)
  2. A very valid concern is being locked out due to loss of connectivity but what if you’re away and the batteries die? Some Yale Real Living lock models have an external battery connector, you can remove the cover and attach a 9v battery to the connector to “jump” start the lock, enter your codes and gain access to your door. Key point here, as long as your lock has atleast one code programmed you should always be able to access it even if you lose connectivity as long as the lock has a power source

(Tim) #16

The (1) “smart lock” is only for convenience. The rest of the deadbolts are traditional. The idea is “not” to go “keyless”, will always carry the key. Yes, when you set your home up as a so-called “smart home” you will obviously open it up to everything that comes with that.

Either way, thanks all for the input for now… I’ve decided to get the Kwikset 914 for my own personal reasons even though both this one and the Schlage Connect Camelot are roughly the same cost (around $160±) and probably better. I can easily return the Kwikset if it in fact is inferior…but really, one can analyze all day, but ultimately must decide in order to move on.


(John Roguetech) #17

I know the Samsung locks have a battery terminal on the side. No need to remove a panel.

edit: My understanding is that this is NOT a “smart” lock. It does NOT connect to SmartThings! Real disappointment, especially since it’s from Samsung.

Not endorsing it, but frankly, with an electronic lock, if there’s not a convenient way to do it, don’t buy it!


(KL Forslund) #18

I got the Kwikset 910 last summer as my first z-wave device when my wife was laid up from foot surgery and the ancient deadbolt wouldn’t unlock when I came back with lunch…

almost a year later, it’s on a second set of batteries. Most of the time, I use the keypad to lock or unlock it.

I have a hybrid ADT Pulse and ST dual hub environment. ADT is set to auto-lock it when I set the alarm. Otherwise, I don’t issue many door commands over z-wave. Alexa won’t touch it, even to lock it in a Routine.

Now my unit’s not the same as yours, but I’d bet they’re similar tech bits, just different form factor.

I’m not sure what would make a KwikSet not as secure as Shlage. I’m sure both can be picked and your door can be kicked in even with a perfect deadbolt. The keypad is a reasonable protection against ST being down AND you lost your key.


#19

The details are in the FAQ linked to above, or you can ask a locksmith. The short answer is that Kwikset uses some aluminum parts where the other two brands use steel or brass, and uses thinner parts on top of that. . They are rated by a third-party security organization and you can see the ratings on the box.

Here’s a teardown video directly comparing Schlage to Kwikset. A lot of people won’t think the quality difference is worth the price difference, but the difference is there.

As the locksmith in the video explains about Kwikset:

They’ve used as little material as they possibly can in order to save money

And that’s on pretty much every part of the lock, creating multiple vulnerabilities when compared to the higher end brands.


(Manfred Maiers) #20

My daughter did get locked out at our vacation home in Florida, coming from oversees. She had to sleep in the car overnight and I had to contact a person who has a physical key to our house. Problem: Batteries empty
Solution(s): I converted my battery operated Kwikset lock to a power supply powered one. I also have a keypad at the garage door. I am hiding a real key outside (not under a fake rock…).