Help wiring up Fibaro FGS-222 Dual Relay Switch to existing switch

uk
hubv2

(Mat) #1

So I’ve taken the plunge on a few systems to help make my home ‘smarter’, the most recent acquisition being the Samsung Smartthings hub with a number of sensors. Great so far, I’m loving the motion sensors and the fact that I can trigger the outlet plug to switch on some lights.

In addition to the Smartthings I purchased the Fibaro FGS-222 Dual Relay Switch to replace the current unit that controls my outdoor lighting. This is controlled via a Timecard SL055 which independently controls two separate runs of LED lights, one with 8 x GU10 5W LED’s and the other 4 of the same bulb types.

I wondered if anyone could provide guidance on exactly how to swap out the Timeguard for the Fibaro. I’m not bothered about retaining the Timeguard and am more than happy to just replace it with a blanking plate. I foresee us controlling the lights via the Smartthings app of IFTTT etc etc, so manual control isn’t a must.

I’ve attached some pics. I can see that the current wiring setup is :

Black - Goes to N on Timeguard
Red - Goal to L on Timeguard

I assume these are the main supply wires throughout the house.

There are then two extra wires which I assume supply power to the separate lights for each switch. The wires contained within are

First Brown - SL2
Second Brown - SL1

Green/Yellow - All three are screwed to the corner of the back-box
Blue - There are two blue (one from each wire) wires that are screwed into the second N on the back of the Timeguard (these run alongside the two brown wires)

There are lots of other smaller wires, some of which aren’t connected and others which are connected to PIR sensors - I don’t think I need these anymore.

Here are pictures of the Timeguard setup

In terms of how I’d wire the Fibaro up I’m at a loss. How do the inputs N, L, IN, Q1, Q2, S1, S2 translate to the wiring of Black, Red, Brown, Brown, Blue, Blue, 3 x yellow/green?

Am I correct in assuming the following on the Fibaro :

L - Red wire
N - Black wire
IN - ?
Q1 -Brown
Q2 -Brown
S1 - Empty (no physical switch required)
S2 - Empty (no physical switch required)

As I won’t be using a manual switch (if I can) I gather S1 and S2 on Fibaro are left empty???


Would like some advice: kitchen lighting and HVAC project (UK)
(Paul) #2

Bridge L to the ‘IN’ terminal. ( supplying voltage to the relays)
Connect the blue cables with the black cable in ‘N’
‘L’ and Q1 and Q2 are as you put above.

Was/is your timeguard unit fused with a switch on it?
If so you need to check that the circuit supplying it, is a lighting circuit and fused appropriately for the cable sizes. Not on a larger power circuit 16A +


(Mat) #3

Hi Paul,

There aren’t any fuse boxes near the Timeguard wall unit, similarly, there’s nothing on the outside wall near the external lights. There is a sticky label on the back of the Timeguard unit with the following information on it.

P5 OV 240V Pi
67-351-74 iss 3
46 /06JC
P6 0V 20V P10

For my own understanding, what is the purpose of the bridge between the red wire (L) and IN?


(Mat) #4

Does this help explain the fuse question?

Does this suggest I should have a separate fuse somewhere?


(Paul) #5

Possibly, but if you have or haven’t, it won’t matter.
As long as it was installed correctly. it will either be on a lighting circuit or supplied from a separate fused connection unit.(fused spur).
So from that diagram you are fine to change it over.

Regarding bridge between ‘L’ and IN
The relays are just a switch. You have to supply one side with voltage/current. So that when it closes it will turn the lights on.
So in reference to a standard switch ‘IN’ would be the common or ‘C’ and Q1 would be L1.
It’s done this way for flexibility. ‘L’ needs to 230V to power the device. But you might want the relays to switch a 12 or 24V circuit. then you would supply ‘IN’ with the 12V or 24V supply.


(Mat) #6

Thanks Paul for your explanation, its useful to understand the ‘why’ part.

I’ve illustrated this as I find it easier to visualize, my understanding is the following.

If I did decide to retain the timeguard for manual operation, is it just a matter of extending the wires out of the Fibaro to the relevant sockets? So for instance I’d perform a secondary link of Q1 and Q2 to those of SL.1 and SL.2 and similarly for the other wiires. I don’t think I want to retain the manual control but in terms of being interested I thought I’d ask.


(Paul) #7

Yes, that as all correct.

S1 and S2 from the time guard could be connected up to the fibaro’s S1 + S2 and the timeguard used as a timed manual switch. No link from Q1+Q2 to S1+S2


(Mat) #8

Thanks for your help, I successfully wired it up last night. After a few teething problems I eventually got it through inclusion. I’ve found the range isn’t great so have had to move the smartthings hub closer. A probable cause of the reception is that I’ve replaced the time guard unit over the top. I intend to replace it with a plastic blanking plate.


(Mat) #9

Ok so next wiring question :grin:

I love the fact that I can now control my two wiring circuits with 12 LED’s via the Smartthings app so am consequently looking to do the same with a switch at the other end of my house. This is a duel gang switch at the bottom of the stairs controlling :

Switch 1 - 8 x 5w GU10 LED’s
Switch 2 - 2 x 50w Halogen GU10’s

The lights that switch 2 controls can be switched on/off via another switch in my attic room (top of the stairs).

I’d like to wire up a Fibaro Dual Relay behind the dual gang switch so that I can control the outdoor lighting to the front of the house.

The wiring in this is different to that of my original post. It contains the following :

Wire 1 (controlling outdoor lighting) - Brown, Green/Yellow and Blue
Wire 2 (controlling landing lighting) - Brown x2, Green/Yellow, Blue, Grey (with brown sleeve) and Black (with brown sleeve)

How does this all wire up to the Fibaro???

Here are some pics


(Paul) #10

So you only want to connect up and control Sw1 with the fibaro?

If so,
Blues into 'N’
Turn switch off. The terminal that is live is your feed that needs to be linked into ‘L’ (possibly the one in the common)
also link ‘L’ to 'IN’
Move other wire from switch into 'Q1’
New wire from ‘L1’ on switch to ‘S1’

After you have identified the feed cable don’t forget to turn the circuit off.

If you want to do both, need pic of other switch, top of stairs.
and confirm if they are both on the same circuit from fuse board.


(Mat) #11

AHmm I’d assumed both switches would need wiring to Fibaro but with you asking that I understand I wouldn’t have to.

I’ll get a pic of the upstairs switch tonight and confirm they’re both on the same circuit.

Thanks


(Paul) #12

You only need to take photo if you want both.
If they are on different circuits it can’t be done any how.
you would have to use the dimmer version on the other switch because of no neutral for it.


(Mat) #13

Hi,

So I can confirm the following.

The switch that controls the outdoor lighting (left) is on the circuit with breaker “1st Floor Lighting”. The switch which controls the attic landing light (right) is on the circuit with breaker “Attic Lighting”. The dual gang socket on the landing of the attic has two switches, one for controlling the attic lighting (Left) and another that controls the 1st floor lighting (Right). When I switch off the breaker for “Attic Lighting”, the Left switch no longer works, similarly, when I switch off the 1st floor lighting breaker, the right switch ceases to operate.

With that in mind, I took some photo’s of the attic dual gang switches (below). I’ve included a breakdown of where the wires go.

Attic dual gang switch

Left switch (controls landing as per right switch on outdoor lighting unit)

S1 - Controls loft landing
S2 - Controls floor 1 landing

3 leads

Lead 1

Green/yellow
Brown - S1 - L1
Brown - S1 - L2

Lead 2

Green/yellow
Grey (brown sleeve) - S1 - L1
Brown - S1 - Common
Black (brown sleeve) - S1 - L2

Lead 3

Green/yellow
Blue (brown sleeve) - S2 - L1
Yellow (brown sleeve) - S2 - L2
Red (brown sleeve) - S2 - Common

I don’t know if this is enough to go off. My logic is, at some point I’m hoping to add relays to each of the switches throughout (not yet though), so, going with the original idea of the Fibaro Dual Relay is likely (if possible).

If it isn’t possible then I’m happy to just buy the single relay and control the outdoor lighting.

On a different topic, you mention I’d need to Fibaro Dimmer. Why is this? On the original picture it shows two neutral wires for each set of circuits coming in?


(Paul) #14

By that you mean the original picture of the outside/landing switch? the 2 blue cables in that are almost certainly a neutral supply to the switch, then a neutral supply out to the outside lights.

You almost certainly won’t have a neutral at the other switches from your description.

So what you can do Is relay for outside light, dimmer unit in 1st flr switch for that landing and then another dimmer in loft switch for loft landing.
you could use the dimmer unit in outside light switch too. encase you ever chose to dim them in the future. They can be set to switch only not dim the load.

You can’t use one relay or dimmer to control 2 switches on different circuits. the neutrals also have to be kept separate.
So you can’t use 2 relays in the outside light switch. One on each circuit but with a common neutral between them.


(Mat) #15

Ok that sounds like a lot of faffing and there probably isn’t enough room in the back boxes to handle a dimmer and relay.

In that case I’ll probably opt for controlling just the outside lights.

Fibaro do a single relay I believe. Or Aeon do cheaper ones. I might have a look at them. Although I’m not sure if the wiring requirements will differ v


(Mat) #16

Hi Paul,

So I’ve thought about this some more and will probably just control the outside light switch via a z-wave relay (of some kind).

I was going to opt for the Fibaro but I think the Aeon one will do the same job at less of a cost (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aeotec-Micro-Smart-Switch-DSC18103-ZWEU/dp/B00JGSDJKU/ref=pd_vtph_60_tr_t_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=3R89905GXMHM7GK034RG).

You mentioned for the Fibaro both neutrals are to go into the into ‘N’. If I’m only wiring up one switch why would both blues go to N?


(Paul) #17

So assuming all wiring is correct.

The two blue neutral conductors that are connected together in the connector block are just the neutral supply for the outside light. It just happens to come via the switch. So one is the supply from the fuse board, the other is the supply out to the light.
These two conductors are the same circuit. They just need to be kept connected together to keep the outside light/s working. So do the joint at the relay whilst supplying it with a neutral.


(Mat) #18

Hi,

So with the current wiring in mind, will it work with the Aeon Micro Smart Switch? The reason I’m considering this over the Fibaro is cost and the fact that this is directly supported by Smartthings.

http://aeotec.com/z-wave-in-wall-switches/848-micro-ses-2e-manual-instructions.html


(Paul) #19

You should be fine, I’ve not used any of the Aeon stuff though.


(Mat) #20

Cool.

I know you’ve said you’ve haven’t used the Aeon stuff but do you have any idea on the wiring requirements? Looking at the diagram the two neutrals are connected together and linked to the N on the right under the ‘AC Power’ section. And I’m thinking the live feed (Left switch:common) goes to L under ‘AC Power’.

Which wires go to the inputs on the switch (I’m going to keep the physical switch)?

Any clues as to how and remaining wires are wired up?