Get ready to make the switch!

It gets a little tricky witb DTHs in NewApp. If a developer gas not created a custom presentation / VID in thier DTH, then the system is making a guess about what controls need to be present in the device’s display based on the capabilities defined in the DTH. So if you switched between devices that have no VID and the same capabilities, it displays the same stuff.

One trick is to set it to use a wildly different dth to one of the generic ones like ‘ZWave Device’ which we know doesn’t really show anything and back…

What device was it and what dth were you trying to switch to?

Thanks for the response. These are Netatmo devices, specifically the Wind Gauge and Outdoor module. Using the updated DTH from @cscheiene. The other devices seem to have updated (indoor/rain) but it’s just these two that are causing the trouble. I just changed it to a motion sensor and it changed, however switching back to the Wind module it doesn’t change in the app, still displays the motion sensor elements…

Update: I believe this is a “New App” issue as is displays appropriately in the “Classic App”

Then the device handler will need to be updated by the developer to display properly.

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I guess you’ve not been using it for the last week with their transition to the “new” presence sensor in the new app. It left my automations pointing at a disconnected presence sensor.

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If we are stuck with a device that is using a custom DTH, and the old API goes away, How will we be able to able to change it back to a stock DTH?

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I’m trying but continue to get frustrated every step of the way. So much has changed and not for the better. I have been using this solution since the inception and over the years little discomforts do occur but nothing like the impact of the migration. Having to create many virtual switch’s to handle functions whether in SharpTools or other apps should not be. Need to to make all areas accessible via an API even your new SHM. Next time you get bright ideas of making major changes, which you call enhancements, discuss with the long time supporters and have community feedback like other companies do. I know it works as I sit on 3 panels and they listen and the products usually are better in the end. We shouldn’t loose functionality like EchoSpeaks or SharpTools unless you have a native replacement which I am in favor of. Work with those outside Dev teams as they have truly made this product a success.

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Trust me- we’re ALL asking the same question about a lot of IDE-only functionality.

Adding/removing/Changing custom DTH’s
Advanced Logging at both the hub and device level
Zwave / Zigbee Troubleshooting
Adding/Removing/Changing Location Modes
Smartapp Troubleshooting
Adding/Removing/Changing Virtual Devices

I THINK they intend to push a lot of the device management stuff into the CLI based on what I’ve seen in Custom Capability/Presentations/Device Profiles but some of this stuff, like the logging, mdoes, etc. NEEDS to just be in the app. (And man it wouldn’t be hard.)

Just my 0.02

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Yeah, that is definitely the million dollar question. What’s next? While this migration has been difficult for a lot of people, if they blow the next part about the IDE transition that could be a lot worse. Hopefully there will be some lessons learned from the initial change.

I’ve fortunately got everything working in the new app, and even figured out how to update some DTH’s to get them working better in the new app, but if the IDE is gone, how will we use custom code?

I posted this on a GE switch, but its not encouraging that only the actual manufacturers of products themselves can access the developer workspace. I tried looking into updating some code for a DTH and this is what I see. It is an ominous sign for any user supplied custom code. Time will tell and the posts above from Samsung imply they are committed to getting an IDE replacement and continuing to support Webcore, so I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

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Right now to the only function for hub connected devices in the new dev workspace is to submit them for publication. Hence restricting it to organizations only. All the actual code work is still done in the Groovy IDE.

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Hopefully - Although there are a few very helpful ST staffers who frequent the community. So it’s up to us to be very (respectfully) vocal about what we need to make sure this ABSOLUTE CLUSTER doesn’t happen all over again with the IDE retirement next year.

  • We need a FINAL ANSWER on roadmap/direction for Zigbee/Zwave Hub connected Groovy device handler development. I’ve already talked to at least three DTH devs who will remain nameless out of respect and confidentiality who really don’t want to update their DTH with VIDs as a stopgap if they are going to have to do it all over again in 6 months.
  • We need an answer to the ‘hobbyist’ / not for profit / for profit third party developers’ access to workspaces (as @mwav3 notes above)
  • We need the CLI and Custom Capabilities/Presentations to actually WORK (Well, we needed that 6 months ago) and developer support for those helping to update DTHs
  • We need replacements to troubleshooting tools (Logging, Repairs, a way to see what automation or device called what activity, etc.)
  • We need an easy, end-user friendly way to create virtual switches, because it’s very apparent we need them to make half of our automations work.

I’m sure more will come to mind, but these are MINIMUMS.

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Yes, that’s the problem. You can only publish custom code on the IDE that’s going away.

From what I’m seeing, Samsung’s goal is to use stock DTH’s whenever possible, that can run locally on the hub. Sounds like a cool idea, and they’re trying to get manufacturers engaged to supply those codes, which is why I’m sure they don’t want any average joe accessing the workspace. They want to be involved with reviewing and certifying those codes. Samsung must think its too much of a security risk to allow custom code to run locally on a hub, or whatever their reasons on.

But what do you do about all the devices that either don’t supply custom code, or are long gone but people still want to use their products?

I could not agree with you more, your list is excellent.

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I know there is now a tool to ‘migrate’ to a new hub. What is more important to me is the ability to backup my existing hub so that when the inevitable hardware failure occurs I can ‘restore’ to a replacement hub. Seems like a simple request since the new ‘migration’ tool does backup the existing hub as part of the migration process.

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Almost- we ASSUME it’s doing a backup somewhere, but we don’t know for sure how it actually does that. it may be doing a direct connection between the two hubs to make it work. I almost want to move to a v.3 to check but with 180 devices I really don’t want to guinea pig my setup.

My list was really more about retiring the IDE - I can give an ENTIRELY different list for overall success with the platform. That said your request would DEFINITELY be within my top 2 asks…

There was a page On the Samsung site describing such a tool, but I haven’t heard of anyone who actually used it, and that page has now been removed. Do we know that this actually exists?

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That sucks! I know in the instructions that were posted there was a step that said it will ‘back up’ the existing hub. Did Samsung jump the gun on the migration tool? It would be nice if Samsung would follow up on what happened. Maybe that would be asking too much.

With respect, that is one big leap from a message saying ‘You need to be part of an organisation to publish a hub-connected integration’ when you attempt to create a hub-connected device project in your private workspace.

I am simply an individual who does a limited about of development largely for his own amusement and use. I am registered on the developer workspace and am part of an organisation.

The organisation’s administrator was totally transparent about its nature when requesting to enrol it, but the reality is it took far longer to fill in the form than to be approved. In fact, it probably took longer to move the mouse and click the button to submit the request than for it to be approved. The organisation even has a brand and logo. That did take longer to be approved, but approved it was. I am the organisation’s administrator. I am the organisation. The only chance that it will grow to having a third person in it is if I add another Samsung account that I own to it. In which case the organisation will be me, me and me.

My often expressed opinion is that the Developer Workspace, along with the new environment as a whole, does have features and characteristics that could be reasonably considered to suggest that community development was considered of zero, or very little, importance when it was designed. It was certainly what I thought when I first encountered SmartThings not such a long time ago. This subject of this post would be a good example. However I believe such things are now generally relics.

Graham - if I may ask, which org did you join? I was looking at that very item last night and though we as a community could just create our own org for the hobbyists. If such an animal exists I’m not going to re-invent said wheels. :slight_smile:

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You are going to see the workspace align more with the CLI, which will become the primary way that developers interface with the platform. As others have noted the CLI is open to everyone. We are building tools that will allow larger companies with many collaborators to publish their devices/apps AND those same tools can be accessed by individuals. This work is not being done to exclude anyone.

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The point is that I didn’t join an organisation. I AM the organisation. I did create it using a second Samsung account but I can’t remember if I actually NEEDED to do that. It is more likely that I was a) curious to see how it would work, and b) quite liked the idea at the time.

I don’t have any fear for the future of individual community developers. I just think that the Developer Workspace isn’t a particularly comfortable place for them quite yet.

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Thanks Jody, appreciate that info. I installed the CLI and watched your video. Got it running, it wouldn’t authentic my account, but got it working with a token in the config file.

I’m just an amateur, and am trying to update a dimmer switch DTH. I figured I should be able to figure out the CLI to at least display the dim level on the main screen of the app. But the DTH itself seemed like it would need a lot of rewriting to even work with the CLI. Plus the whole CLI process is bulky with running the commands in Python, creating the JSON file, then updating the IDE. I just can’t see amateurs figuring that out, and experienced coders that have been on here for years can’t.

Plus, this is an Alpha release, not even Beta. I don’t know if I’m doing something wrong (likely the case) or if it’s the CLI? I can’t see developers investing time to rewrite code in this when there is so much uncertainty.

It’s encouraging to hear moving towards an open developer space, but it’s just not ready yet. Hopefully it will all be before the IDE is gone, but a lot of us are still a little shell shocked about the sudden changes. Appreciate all your hard work with this and posting here though.

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