Frient Zigbee Devices ? (UK)

Smoke alarms were easy to set up in ST, same as a ST device. They are now working in ST Home Monitor. Hardest part was screwing the backplates onto the wall/ceiling.

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After reading about Frient in this post, and a need for replacing my Aqara Door Sensors, I ordered a Frient Entry Sensor from Amazon to test it.

At first you notice it’s pretty large as compared to other brands, but that’s due to the fact it takes 2x AAA batteries, but hopefully they will last a decent amount of time. It has a tiny LED on it which flashes when the Sensor opens and closes which I like as it gives feedback and considering it takes AAA batteries, I think it can afford a couple of tiny flashes a day :slight_smile:

If all goes well with this, I may eventually replace all my Aqara Sensors with this one.

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Ive installed 4 of the Frient smoke alarms. They paired with ST (UK) quickly and easily and i get notifications if they are triggered. Ive had some issues with them triggering correctly - they should have a loud siren however mine have only beeped.
Frient are helping me sort this

However ive learnt that when one goes off the others wont trigger. Frient say its because I need my hub to support IAS in order for them to trigger one another.
Does anyone know if this works in ST? If so how?
Or can device handler be made to allow it or something?
@Andrew_Bartlett do you know??

Thanks

Sorry I do not know

This isn’t supported in the current SmartThings architecture, users cannot create association groups at this time. Instead use the Automations tool or Scenes to trigger a group of alarms. Many automations and device handler (including the Frient ones) run local, so they will trigger even if there isn’t any internet which should replicate the association/groups behavior. The beeping means that the device handler hasn’t recognized your device correctly (it’s sending the wrong command as a consequence), what’s your model number?

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I know you know this, but just to clear up any confusion…

Both Zwave and Zigbee use the term “association“ but they use it in different ways.

ZWAVE ASSOCIATION: ONE TRIGGER DEVICE TO ONE OR MORE TARGET DEVICES

In Zwave, you set up an “association group“ so that a trigger device can send a message to one or more target devices without having to go through the hub. You can currently set these up in smartthings by using the Z wave Tweaker tool that was developed by the community.

Once the commands are sent, they look like any other network commands. The trigger device is the sender and the target device is the destination address.

The trigger device has to get permission from the hub to be able to do this, and it specifies the specific targets it wants to be able to talk to. So that is called setting up an association.

Note that one Z wave device might be in different groups for different trigger devices. So the hall light switch might be in association group 2 for an auxiliary light switch at the other end of the hall and then association group 3 for a handheld remote. Or it might be in two different association group 2’s used for two different trigger devices.

The point is that the zwave association group is specific to each trigger device. It’s just the list of device IDs that that trigger device is allowed to send messages to.

ZIGBEE ASSOCIATION: ANOTHER WORD FOR JOIN

In Zigbee, the term “association“ refers to joining the network for the first time. The new device gets associated to a parent device. But that doesn’t have anything to do with groups.

ZIGBEE GROUPS: GROUPCASTING

In Zigbee, groups are used for “groupcast“ commands. Once the device is in a group, it’s in that group no matter who the trigger device is. A trigger device which is capable of groupcasting Can then send a a single command to group 1 (instead of to individual device IDs) and every device on the network will check to see if it is in group one and if it is, it will then perform the requested action. So this is a very different mechanism than zwave direct association.

At the present time there is no way in a smartthings set up that I know of to set or change the Zigbee groups that individual devices belong to.

ZIGBEE END DEVICE BIND

Zigbee has another function called “end device bind“ that you can do in smartthings with custom code which allows a Zigbee trigger device to send a message directly to one specific endpoint on one specific Zigbee target device. So there’s no group involved. But it is similar to zwave direct association if you were only looking at two devices, the trigger and the target.

Here’s an old discussion of how to do that in smartthings, which I believe is still applicable for now. But I don’t know if you’ll be able to do it once the new platform is fully in place and the groovy IDE goes away. They have yet to publish the details on hub connected devices and custom code.

SUMMARY

I haven’t looked at the specs, but it sounds like the Frient Alarms are depending on groupcasting, and as you noted that is not currently supported in smartthings.

You might be able to individually bind one frient alarm to another, again I haven’t checked the specs, but it would be a lot of work. :thinking:

And Again, I know you know all of that, but I wanted to spell out the details for people who are less familiar with the protocols. Just to avoid any confusion. :sunglasses:

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Yep JD, you’re right. When we built the Frient (and other) integrations this is something we looked into but wasn’t an easy solution for the end user. The Automation / rule is the best solution in the current architecture. This may change in future as SmartThings is aware of the current limitation.

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Hi. I have the Frient 20209600 Intelligent Smoke Alarm.
I cant use an automation to trigger another alarm - or at least not that ive seen or figured out
So is it a plan to add this support?

Thanks

I need more info about your model, open the IDE, click on My Devices, Click on your Frient alarm and send me the model and manufacturer.

Nothing special is required in the device handler to trigger the alarms using the Automation tool. If it’s using the correct device handler it should automatically show up in the Automation tool to be used as an Alarm (verified it’s working here with the model that was certified by SmartThings)

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Hi.

  • manufacturer: frient A/S
  • model: SMSZB-120

I got the one that said its certified with SmartThings

Are you saying the beeping instead of a siren is also wrong then?
Should i delete and re-pair?

Thanks for help

The smoke alarm doesn’t support the Siren feature at this time which is why you can’t trigger it from SmartThings. That will need a custom device handler for it… You can request frient to add support for it, once they approve it we can work on it.

Ask who to add support sorry?

So to get this straight the smoke alarm cant not due to SmartThings trigger another alarm if one goes off. So they are basically bloody useless in a large building with several floors. Great! I will probably send them Back to amazon then :weary:

Frient said it was a ST issue so is it someone in ST i need ro ask for support or Frient?

Thanks

OEM’s are responsible for creating integrations for their products, not SmartThings. In this case Frient would need to create a custom device handler which can utilize all the features of the device (currently it only utilizes the smoke sensor feature but not the alarm feature which is why it’s unavailable). It’s true that the Group feature as JD pointed out isn’t possible in SmartThings at this time, however if Frient created a custom device handler to utilize the built in alarm then you can use the Automation tool to create a simple rule to trigger the other alarms in the building when any one alarm is triggered.

Well i can confidently say they wont do that. They have just released a siren and range extender. Id imagine they will point us in that direction.

So i might be being dumb here (sorry!) do any fire alarms currently work with ST where they can trigger one another or is it the same issue across the board?

I take it the group feature that JD pointed out is this IAS thing?

Thanks

The IAS cluster isn’t the issue here, the smoke sensor is supported by the device handler as per the specs. The group feature isn’t supported by SmartThings but if Frient wants they can add support for triggering the alarm on demand (via a custom device handler) which will allow you to then trigger the alarm using the Automation tool.

There are other sirens which can used with the Automation tool to trigger them if a smoke sensor is detected.

Many smoke sensor manufacturers in both the US and the UK do not allow third party automation control of the siren feature. In some jurisdictions this is limited by code. The concern is that people would trigger the siren for non-smoke events, including burglar alarms, and that would cause people to stop reacting to smoke alarms like smoke alarms.

Smoke alarms have a unique sound in the UK, Europe, the US, and many other countries because they are intended to signal to anyone who hears them that there is a fire and they should be prepared to evacuate. That’s not the response to a burglar alarm, where you may want the people to stay put to avoid running into the burglars.

For example, nest does not allow third-party triggering of their sirens on the nest protects. And none of the smoke sensors that have IFTTT services allow you to trigger their alarms.

Note that that’s different than causing the sirens to trigger each other, which is why there may be a way to do that on some platforms. But most manufacturers don’t want you to just set up a rule on your own. And it may not be legal in some jurisdictions.

So to be honest, I’d be surprised if any smoke sensor manufacturer advised “just set up an automation“ to make the smoke sensor siren go off.

It may be capability.siren , but it’s a special kind of siren with a legally defined acoustic pattern which is different from other sirens.

FWIW

Ok. So i can throw this back to Frient correctly and ask the right questions. They have told me its an IAS issue and that it can work on other hubs. They said their alarms do support it an will work but its hib specific. So IAS and group feature are different things? Both of which not supported by ST hub?.

I dont want to be fobbed off with wrong answers so i want to make sure i ask them and tell them the issue as it stands

I will certainly ask about a custom device handler but im not convinced they will change it.

Sorry your going to regret getting involved :joy:

Im not a developer or programmer or anything so its not all 100% clear to me sorry

IAS just means it’s a zigbee Device that accepts a specific set of security system commands. IAS stands for “intruder alert system“ but it means both security and fire.

Anyway, I would keep it super simple. I would just describe what you want from a typical customer’s point of view: you want to set it up so that when one siren goes off your other sirens go off and you are using smartthings as your hub.

If they tell you there’s no way to do that, ask them if they know of another brand which does. :sunglasses:

I agree. I cant see them changing it or allowing automations to trigger them because of the risk of false triggers etc as you say. To be clear - they have not said this is the solution. They said its an IAS issue which is what I want to understand.

What confuses me is Why release a “supported by SmartThings” product when it doesn’t support full features. The only feature i can see it supports is a notification. Seems pointless

Current UK regs dictate the volume and distances required between fire alarms in domestic settings.
Have these Fire Alarms been given any official approval?
Stand alone they would not suffice and would need a wired alarm.

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I have asked them that from the offset. They said its a hub issue and I need to speak to ST for help

I will speak to Amazon and get them sent back. I cant see how they are a good device now i have learnt their limitations. Id be better investing in something else.

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