Den UK Lightswitches

I was in London last week and kept seeing posters for Den on the Underground. Never heard of them before.

Anyone know anything about it? I’ve tweeted them asking about what protocols they are using, but no response yet.

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I’ve just dropped them an email. will post back if I get a response.

They aren’t giving much away on their website.

Agreed. Seems like they are yet to core a marketing team!

How long before it becomes common place to run /23 network to accommodate the average amount of WiFi devices in a large home??? A WiFi enabled socket could consume a large amount of IP addresses.


Unless it uses IPv6, locally.

Yep. Fair point that. Or some other protocol crosses fingers

The hole in the market for a UK socket that isn’t lightwave :slight_smile: Someone somewhere is going to make a killing!

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I noticed posters about these on pretty much every escalator on the tube.
I looked them up when I got home, found very little in the way of specs but I did find a suggestion that it needs a hub which immediately put me off. Also they seem very good at making posters, and not very good at making products right now! Nothing is available to buy, although they’ve got some reviews on their site saying how much people love using it…

I still don’t like the delay between something that uses a hub turning on, and ST knowing about it. For example, if I switch my Hue bulbs on with a Hue Tap, then it takes 1-5 minutes for ST to know about it. That’s surely got to be the same here.

really. I find my hue to ST and vice versa to be quite responsive.

ST to Hue is, but even with the LAN Connect Beta, if I hit my Tap button that communicates directly with my Hue Bridge then it takes a while - certainly in the order of a minute or so - for ST to realise.

For example. My kitchen lights are set up so that if there’s motion in the kitchen, AND the living room lights are on (i.e. it’s dark enough in the house to need light) then they turn on until 5 minutes after the motion stops.

If I walk into the house, turn the living room light on through ActionTiles or Alexa (which both send a signal to ST directly), and walk into the kitchen, then the lights come on.
If I walk into the house, turn the living room lights on with my Tap (or using the Hue app, but why would you?), and walk into the kitchen, then it’s 60 seconds plus before the lights come on - because 60 seconds later, the CoRE piston that says “if motion AND living room lights are on” becomes true - prior to that, according to ST, the living room lights were off.

It’s just expected behaviour. ST can’t poll Hue every 50ms or whatever, that would trash the network even with SuperLANConnect. The same is true of my Hive heating because it has a separate hub. I’d expect the same to happen with Wemo switches too - anything that doesn’t use Zwave or Zigbee to talk directly to the ST Hub.

Finally got a response from Den:

Hey Paul

Many thanks for your email

Apologies for taking a while to get back to you - its been an extremely busy time for Den over the last 2 months.

In response to your questions:
We are using Wifi
Our products will operate with Nest/Google Home and Alexa
Our products will be available to purchase from major UK retailers and electrical distributors from September 2017, and we will be opening up pre-orders via our website soon at which points we will send you an email.
Please let me know if you have anymore questions

Peace and love

Yasser Khattak
CEO, Den

I’ve asked if they are planning an IFTTT integration, will post back when I get a response.

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I worked with Lightwave for 6 months back in 2015 as part of my MBA.
I know Yasser so have reached out for an update.

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I got an automated response from the email address advertised on the website. It looks like things have been delayed as they are now saying that the devices will go on sale at the start of 2018. My details are on file, so will hopefully get an update when there is one.

I wonder how much of a market there is for them in the UK for Smartthings integration, the fact that there is no announcement on integration would suggest a small market. Hence the integration with with Alexa and Apple.

Why did they have to make these WiFi.

I’m still waiting for a switch and dimmer Z-wave unit that can go behind any faceplate

As in an actual dimmer and switch module. Not an “add-on”

For clarification, a grid like dimmer with Z-Wave built in

My Questions

So, My questions to you.

  1. Are you using an industry standard ( Zigbee / Z-Wave )

  2. Do you support Energy Monitoring

  3. Does the light switch need a neutral feed?

  4. Can the light switch work with CFL light bulbs (Not a problem, But would solve my Kitchen lighting issue )


Natasha Khattak (Den)

Feb 23, 15:04 GMT

Hey Gary,

Thanks for your enquiry and apologies for the delayed reply. Over the last few months, we’ve received a huge volume of enquiries from the public which caused some delays.

In response to your questions;

  1. Den products talk to each other using ZigBee wireless technology, however, you communicate with the hub using Wi-Fi.

  2. Yes, each individual socket outlet contains power consumption monitors, so you can see what’s using the most juice! Use our app to monitor how much energy your appliances are using and see where you can save! (Our products use minimal energy as they are powered by ZigBee.)

  3. We use novel and proprietary technology which means that we don’t require a neutral wire in the back box. Our switches will be direct replacements for your existing light switches and work with standard UK lighting circuits.

  4. Yes, Den’s light switches will work with CFL bulbs, but we recommend using LED bulbs to reduce your energy consumption.

Den will officially be launching into the UK market at the end of April 2018, along with our stunning bespoke app.

Our products will be available from leading UK electrical wholesalers and retailers. You’ll be able to pre-order them through our new website which we plan to launch in the coming week.

We’re continuing to work exceptionally hard and hope you’re as excited as we are.

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Those light switches look ideal, shame they need a hub, I’ve got too many hubs.

SmartThings uses the Zigbee Home Automation profile (ZHA 1.2)

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Hi All,

I got in contact with Den.

Den products talk to each other using a standard ZigBee 3.0 profile.

It takes a huge amount of resource to get these things talking but we’ve designed our products to work with both Amazon’s Echo and Google Home. We do not plan to ever have an open API so you would not be able to connect to other systems but we are working towards being compatible with Apple HomeKit in the future.

Question: Does anyone know if there will be any problem to have in the same house and network both ST hub and Den hub since they both use ZigBee?

The pricing of Den looks very good compared to what is out in the market.

“Kleverness” Products will also be released in the future but double the price. They will be supporting ST.