Thanks Eric, really appreciate the update, good to hear things are progressing. Too bad you and Zooz can’t work together for a switch that does it all… Depth is a huge issue BTW, I’m not sure .2 inches is still enough for some spots, although it does help.
Can you clarify on the bypass vs 25 watts?
I am still looking for something for the following scenarios:
a 4’ fluorescent light fixture, probably > 25W, no neutral, single pole
a light where I have neutral on the “line” side of a 3 way but the Zooz switch doesn’t fit due to depth… I’ve really tried to get the Zooz to fit there… and I doubt this one would either although I’ll have to measure the Zooz for comparison, I believe it would need like 1/2" improvement over the Zooz 27. Can I put it on the “load” side of the 3 way, with or without the neutral? One has > 25W (but just barely, 27W), one has < 25W.
similar to the above, but where neither end of the 3 way has neutral w/ > 25W
In regards to depth, yeah, I understand. The biggest issue is the size of the relay. At first we thought it might be the Z-Wave chipset, but in all reality that didn’t take up too much room.
I’m fairly confident their switch is the same size as our old one as they were produced in the same factory, but I’ll let them confirm.
Yeah certainly. So there is a bypass you can buy (Fibaro and Aeotec make them now) that will help reduce the wattage required to power the Z-Wave chip. Right now the Z-Wave chip (500 Series) requires 25 Watts to keep it powered. The way our switch works (and other non-neutral switches) is that power is trickled through to the chip from the light to keep the chip running. If power is not sent to the chip, the chip goes offline.
Since most LED bulbs only use about 7-8W per 40W bulb, the chip would not receive enough power to operate. So, this bypass allows the wattage required by the chip to be minimized.
I realize I’m also not an electrician and am passing on my interpretation from the engineers, so I can get you a better answer as well.
So, to answer your requirements, here’s my reco:
This will definitely work no problem (just make sure there’s enough depth in the gang-box)
I’ll have to check with our engineers on this – possibly @erocm1231 knows the answer to it, but I think we’re still waiting on some of the schematics for fringe cases
Should be perfectly fine here if the wattage is above 25W and the depth is enough!
OK thanks again. Yeah, not sure which electrician building the place thought it was a good idea to use a 25 cu in 2 gang box with 3 2-romex and 2 3-romex wires connected to it but oh well…
On the middle case it the question is whether this can replace the switch where the power comes into the circuit, or can isntead replace the switch where power leaves the traveler to go to the fixture, if that clarifies the question. The Zooz I believe must be installed as the former switch only per the big yellow warning box on page 2 of http://www.getzooz.com/downloads/zooz-z-wave-plus-s2-dimmer-switch-zen27-manual.pdf I want to put the Inovelli switch someplace beside as the leftmost switch in those diagrams, b/c the leftmost is the super-crowded box where depth is an issue.
That’s really nice of you guys. The 25W minimum is a bummer, I know you were shooting for 17W. What would be the procedure to request the bypass if we’ve already pre-ordered?
Justin, is the box metal or plastic? If plastic, you can replace the box by using a hack saw to cut the nails and then install a larger box. I’ve done this countless times in my home.
yeah… its plastic and the box is loose and isn’t flush with the wall… the switch plates stick out more than I’d like as it is so it should be changed in the first place, but I’d rather wait a month or two than do that and risk having to patch some drywall when I screw something up. Trying to avoid work if I can, at least until my todo list gets shorter
Hey great questions and yeah, real bummer about the 17W vs 25W. I was really pushing for it.
To catch everyone else up to the parade (you’ve done your homework!), according to the manufacturer who asked Silicon Labs (who manufacturers the Z-Wave chipsets), the current 500 Series Z-Wave chipset requires 25W of power to operate, whereas the new 700 Series (hasn’t been launched yet) will only require 17-18W.
The original game plan was to develop our firmware around the 700 Series line and simultaneously develop around the 500 Series line in case there was a hiccup with the 700 Series and we would default back to the 500 Series.
We were going to surprise everyone with the 700 Series chip, however, according the manufacturer, Silicon Labs was releasing more of a beta version of the 700 Series in late April. We just found this out about a week ago.
However, the switch will be designed in a way to where when the 700 Series is fully tested and is stable, we can simply swap out the 500 with the 700. Likely August or September (pending nothing changes from Silicon Labs).
To request a bypass, I haven’t figured out a way to do it yet. I’d like some sort of verification process, but I also want to make it as easy and painless as possible for you guys.
As it moves closer to shipment, I’ll likely email everyone and get a count so we know how many to procure and/or produce.
Anyway, hopefully that gives some transparency around things!
Understood but I will admit I haven’t had any drywall cleanup yet. I have one of these hack saws I picked up at a local HD:
First loosen and mark all wires so they can fit through the holes they come into the box. I use a flat head screw driver to put between box and stud to make room for blade to cut both nails while pushing other side in so the other side drywall doesn’t get messed up. Then you cut both nails and the box will come out as you push the wires through. Since the box will become garbage you can break it too to make it easy to pull wires out.
Hey @Spartysh32 – yeah, we’re pretty pumped they were able to figure it out!
So, I’m headed to the manufacturer on Wednesday of this week and will be back April 30th and they should be sending me back with working prototypes of both the On/Off and the Dimmer (I’m hoping the fan too, but we’ll see). From there, we’ll finalize the firmware (should be a week or so for both On/Off and Dimmer) and then once we feel good about it, we’ll send it off to Z-Wave and Samsung for approval.
I’ll know more about local options and more once we get these to Samsung, but I can promise you I’ll be pushing to get everything local!
Any updates here? Waiting to order, but still planning to center my entire home around this new tech! Website still shows in beta testing which was supposed to be done in May?
Hey @Kevin_Reene – yeah, great question – I just got back from the manufacturer and should be giving an update by Wednesday (I had to order a nice camera to actually take a decent video as my cell phone wasn’t cutting it). My plan is to take a video of all the parameters and cool hardware and firmware to show everyone the features of the switch we’re finalizing.
Long story short, we had to finalize a few things from UL and Z-Wave feedback and we just finished it last Friday, so now we have to re-submit everything with the changes so we’re a tad behind schedule, but the light is at the end of the tunnel and we’ve made all the required changes UL and Z-Wave suggested so we’re good to go.
I’ll also share the video here when all is said and done.
Curious if zooz or inovelli have looked at the new simplewire technology being deployed in new GE and Jasco switches. Curious if this feature would work in 3/4 way setups.
We haven’t had a chance to take a closer look at it yet, since we don’t carry GE/Jasco switches anymore, it takes us a bit longer to get familiar with their new products. But we’ll definitely check it out to see if this is something that could be used with Zooz switches and ultimately make the installation easier for you guys!
Stumbled across this thread as I am also looking at these switches. Actually, I just installed a Zooz 23 in a three way that unfortunately I have to return. The wiring diagram was perfect and installed properly. The toggle switch mechanism failed to work on the downward toggle. You actually had to push in slightly and then push down. After several attempts, the smart switch locked in the constant on position with the toggle in neutral position. My only remedy is to pull the breaker pending the arrival of a replacement. I love the idea of not having to use smart “slave” switches for a 3 way install, especially in a busy gang box where space is at a premium. Hope the replacement works better. The concept is perfect though, just wished the QC was better on the mechanical toggle switch. I do have to say that my multiple Jasco switches never failed (yet) on the mechanical toggle.
FWIW, I’ve installed 10 Zooz ZEN26 and ZEN27 switches and dimmers. Two of them in 3-ways without changing wiring or device on the load side of the 3-way.
I’ve not had any mechanical issues with mine.
The only switch I have that is physically sticking is a Leviton. I think it’s slightly off kilter and is being slightly jammed by the faceplate pressing on the Decora paddles.
I installed zooz Zen 7000 switches but the connection to smarthings is really slow on syncs and controlling it. I did not do the secure connect - does that matter. The hub is 30 feet from the switch.