Zooz vs Inovelli Switch and Scene controllers

Devices & Integrations
1

Hi,

I am deciding between the Zooz and Inovelli Switch and Scene controllers?

Do any of you have experiences?

Thanks

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The inovelli device is still pre-release, so unless somebody happens to be in a beta program, you won’t get any reviews on that specific device yet.

Expected release date is Oct 1st 2021

Both companies are popular manufacturers with community members here, both seem to make good devices using the latest Z wave technologies. Both have done a good job of keeping up with smartthings platform changes. So it’s mostly a matter of personal preference with regard to aesthetics and features. :sunglasses:

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3

You can have my two Zooz ZEN32s when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.

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4

It looks like Zooz is currently out of stock and Inovelli is pre-order due in October. I’d expect the Zooz device to be back in stock before October. Both are reputable companies within the community. IMO The main differences you should consider if Inovelli is worth the price premium ($32 vs $50):

  1. No-neutral wire
  2. dimming capability
  3. power monitoring
  4. fancy LED animations
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5

Thanks. I did not know about the dimming with Inovelli. Can’t the same be achieved as a scene in zooz?

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You can set a dimmer to a pre-defined level in a scene. The way I understand the inovelli has the ability to press/hold and dim up/down for the connected load (if there is one) whereas the Zooz can only do on/off for a connected load.

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7

right, anything can be setup with a scene with both. The difference is the inovelli can dim the physical load attached to it. I believe I read on their forum it can somehow also control motor loads on/off. here’s some examples of what I setup with the Zooz Scene Switch

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8

Did you consider any other scene controllers that didn’t make the final cut? I’m shopping for some now and would prefer something with load dimming capability (e.g. Innoveli Red)… but I want something that’s actually on the market :slight_smile:

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You likely wont find one. Before these two I don’t remember any ‘scene controllers’ that could control loads at all - that’s fairly new for this device class. The cooper lighting controller I’m replacing with the Z32 can’t for sure. (I definitely wouldn’t recommend the Cooper for a SmartThings install - it was built for a purely Zwave native config and requires a TON of custom code to get it to work.) The Inovelli is the only one I know that can actually DIM a connected load, and they know it - take a look at the marketing materials, that single point is front and center.

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10

It’s new in the sense that the majority of these zwave devices have been battery operated, and they don’t control loads, but the original mains powered entrants, such as Leviton and Cooper, often had a plain button that did on/off for the load and buttons with LEDs for the local scenes.

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https://www.smarthome-products.com/p-1267-leviton-vrcs4-mrz-vizia-rf-4-scene-controller-with-local-control-switch.aspx

Or in some cases button 1 was load control. I think Cooper had one of these.

But these are now very old devices (pre zwave plus) and they came in a lot of different configurations that relied on a messy combination of association and local (not central) scenes that never worked well with SmartThings.

The big change was the rising popularity of smart bulbs which then led to customer demand for scene controllers which did NOT cut the load. :thinking:

However, the practical need (and sometimes local code requirement) to have a switch that would work if the home automation system didn’t started to bring back load control as an option.

So it’s now a matter of researching carefully to make sure any individual candidate will do what you want. :sunglasses:

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11

This is starting to touch on another problem: how many devices can you control in a single junction box. That’s a different topic but I think some of the same new hardware (Inovelli) will solve my “how to control what’s now 6 actual devices using 3 gangs of width?” problem.

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12

Appreciate the discussion @Vishlance – happy to answer any specific questions you have!

We started a project discussion here and if you have any ideas on how to make the firmware better, we’re all ears. One of our favorite things to do (and one of the reasons why we’re transparent about the entire process) is to build products hand in hand with our community.

One other thing that’s worth mentioning is the 3-Way application with a dumb switch. You likely know better than me as I can only see what’s on their site, but it seems you may need an aux-type switch if your line/load are not in the same box, which is pretty common.

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Ours will allow you to wire it with your existing setup as our normal Dimmers & On/Off’s do.

Can you elaborate more here? Sorry, caffeine must not have kicked in lol. Are you wanting to consolidate three switches (separate loads) into one?

Thanks again everyone for starting this thread – we’re excited to see some scene controllers in the market, it’s been a long time coming!

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US safety codes vary, but most jurisdictions limit the total number of wires in any individual junction box.

Traditionally a two button, two load single gang switch has been pretty common, especially for bathrooms where one button controls the light and one controls an exhaust fan. Some people call these a “stacked switch“ and some call them a “half switch,” but I don’t think there’s a standard industry name.

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However, if you start putting these side-by-side in a multi gang box you can hit a code limit. Some jurisdictions, for example, will limit you to a maximum of five loads in a triple gang box.

This has lead to some weird models, like the following (dumb) Pass and Seymour model which has two load controlling buttons and one that is intended only as an auxiliary using a traveler wire, no load.

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Anyway…smart scene controllers can have more buttons since they typically weren’t controlling a load with each button. :sunglasses:

Most manufacturers have gone for a “keypad“ design that fits in a single gang or maybe a double gang box.

Lutron (but not compatible with smartthings)

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Leviton Zigbee (but not compatible with smartthings)

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The remotec 8 button battery powered zwave device was popular with smartthings users for a while, but doesn’t work with the new V3 app because it has too many buttons (24 possible actions, The current architecture is limited to 22 per device). :disappointed_relieved:

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But in this case, The poster seems to be asking about the possibility of installing three multi load devices side-by-side in a triple gang box in order to control 6 physical devices. In which case it’s going to depend on whether that means six different loads or whether some can just be controlled through RF. Because of that code limitation I mentioned. So they will also have to check their local township to see if they are allowed to have six loads in a triple gang box or not.

updated to add the following correction

A friend of mine who is an electrician (which I definitely am not) says the NEC code restriction isn’t on the number of loads, it’s on the number of wires in the box, varying by the size and type of wire, because it’s an overheating issue. So the size of the box, including the depth, also matters in doing his calculations. He said this calculation is called “Box Fill.” Although he said I wasn’t completely wrong, there are some jurisdictions who have written in a max loads requirement as well.

In any case, the RF buttons don’t run into the same issue.

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Yeah, @JDRoberts hit the nail on the head. The bathroom jbox I’ve inherited, which I can assume is up to code given the age and amount of work that’s been done on this house (“it should have/likely would have been caught by now if it was against the rules”), is a 4gang with the expected GFCI then 3 SPSTs. I’d estimate it’s something like 90 cubic inches (relevant for “how many wires can you have?”), something like this box. A small handful of downstream loads were merged together, so here’s what the wiring is now, assigning 1 through 4 from left-to-right for gang slots:

  1. GFCI
  2. 100w incandescent max light fixture for a bathroom ceiling vent fan
  3. 50CFM vent fan and the 1300watt heater element w/small blower and a single 150w recessed can in the ceiling
  4. A 6 x 40watt incandescent vanity bulb rail above the sink

I estimate there are about 1890watts running through the box. It works fine, doesn’t get remotely hot, etc. I don’t know if it’s actually up to code but let’s not get derailed by that part of the conversation, especially since it’s not necessarily a problem moving forward or the same for all potential use cases we discuss in this thread. I think it is likely having 2 or 3 devices with acceptable load levels and a large enough box can be wired through a single-gang-width switch that has dimming capability.

My overall goal is to maintain switch-controllability for each item (not requiring smarthome) and to gain independent control of each item. I’ve already converted everything to LED and installed a new fan that has one extra item (night-vs-regular lighting). Here’s what I want:

  1. GFCI
  2. “fan controls”
    • TOP vent fan
    • BOT heater
  1. “fan’s LED lighting controls”
    • TOP fan main light (LED)
    • BOT fan nightlight (LED)
  1. “preexisting bath light controls” I’d love a dimmer here
    • TOP recessed can (now a 20w dimmable LED)
    • BOT 6x vanity bar (now 24w total of dimmable LED)

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(obviously the night light here will go away once I start using the ceiling fan built-in!)

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15

Excellent post. I suggest you start a new thread for this under projects because otherwise we’re going to get pretty far off topic from the original posts here and people can give you individual ideas specific to your project. :sunglasses:

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16

yeah… I didn’t want to derail too much. I’ll start fresh, standby… done

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