I think that’s really selling the ST community short.
I may not be silent, but I would never consider myself a power-user. I originally got into ST when I was looking for a way to keep tabs on my kids coming home from school while my wife and I were working. ST looked to be the most flexible and had the potential to be the cheapest option due to the ability to use the greatest array of devices.
I’m largely happy with my experiences so far- it’s occasionally frustrating, but since I’m limited to a batch of contact sensors, some outlets, and a siren, there is less of a possibility for something to go wrong. I would admit that the “huge silent mass” probably isn’t using ST to it’s full potential, and there’s a pretty good chance that they aren’t as frustrated for that reason.
My philosophy has been not to use ST for mission critical devices, and to remember that HA at this point is used in addition to products in my home, not as a replacement for them.
I have to say I would consider myself a power user / hobbyist (100+ devices) and in general I’m happy with ST. I’m UK based so a lot of the recent system wide issues are not showing themselves. 95% of the time everything works fine. Schedules are now working I can find a way to get most devices working without a melt down.
I perfectly understand why some developers have had enough as trust and relationships have broken down. But my feeling is that 90% of us are happy with ST. It happens and what is important is how ST respond. This is their chance to embrace the community or go to war with it.
Would I like the bugs fixed hell yeah, would I like faster development of course (Github on the UK IDE please). Will I jump ship no way. I want ST to succeed and I’m happy to live with the most of the problems new tech brings. My expectation is that as this is still a start-up team they have lots of new ideas but have not had time to learn the value of some established best practice’s and so have a learning curve to go through.
What does concern me though is if we start losing major developers. Or Samsung don’t invest sufficient resources to make it work. As at the moment it is the openness of this platform and vibrant community which is its true value to us.
SmartThings has promised nothing. They can pull the plug at any time…right?..just like a developer whom owes their end users nothing…right?
Ironic…no?
So, you decide you want learn code and be a developer…great! You build stuff for yourself and are quite pleased with your accomplishments…okay, I copy that. You decide to release your code…maybe to help others, or maybe it’s a self fulfilling prophecy…whatever floats your boat. If it helps others than no matter the reasoning I think it’s great.
But there’s trouble ahead…you built your reputation as a boss on uneven ground unknowingly and now it has you a bit embarrassed. What’s a developer to do? Tough it out? Pull the plug? Apparently us non-developers would never understand so I can only speculate as a SmartThings peasant.
Okay…so that was a bit dramatic but made me laugh…play along.
So developer has had enough…it’s no longer fun or cool for them anymore and SmartThings ruined it. You owe no one…yet you sight SmartThings ineptitude…whom owes no one anything either?
I’m not saying what I believe…I’m summarizing what I’ve read. If anyone wants to get bent over it than have at it. The fact of the matter is if you decide to start something and decide not to see it through for whatever reason…I get it…we’ve all done it!
My lights are working. My doors lock. My thermostat chugging right along. My home theater seemingly happy as can be.
All of these things run off of someone’s ingenuity…egotistical or otherwise. Regardless of anyones reasoning I appreciate your support. If you decide it’s a pain in the ass…hey, that’s your thing and I get that too!
My opinion?
Nothings perfect…some things just suck…if you don’t like the fact someone quit making something you like, either make it yourself or quit complaining.
Nothings perfect…some things just suck…if you don’t like the fact someone can’t help you look like a boss, either fix it yourself or quit complaining.
Well said. I wrote a post for this thread yesterday that sounded a lot like this. I didn’t post it.
I did have a few additional thoughts overall. As you said, play along: 1) shut up about the WAF factor - if this is really an issue, forget ST, you have bigger problems ahead (the platform apparently wasn’t the worst choice you made), and 2) if you are a “network [this]” or a “system [that]”, then learn to search the forum, ask questions commensurate with your pay grade or perceived job importance (i.e. how do I find the MAC address, really??? network/system WTF?).
All in fun. True, but still meant to be at least partially humorous (provided it didn’t hit too close to home).
Pretty much in the same boat at this point. I’ve only had it a month and in that time there have only been a few instances where things didn’t work as planned but then again I’m not a ‘power user’ at this point. I probably would have been ok with a simple lighting control hub at this point ( Lutron) but chose ST for its flexibility when/if I decide to add smart locks, thermostats,doorbells etc.
By providing documentation and an open API, SmartThings hopes for community involvement in the form of increased functionality. It becomes, in effect, another selling point for using the ST device over another.
When you provide an open API and encourage others to use it, then you do take on issues associated with its use. It’s in your best interest to ensure developers create the best apps. It’s in your interest to ensure community apps don’t cause harm. It’s in your interest to promote the best of the apps, as well as make sure widely used apps are finetuned to be the best they can be.
No one forced ST to open up their platform. I commend them for doing so. However, once they did, then they’ve taken on community-developed apps as another aspect of the ST universe that must be professionally maintained and managed.
Alex from ST understands this.
That @bravenel pulled support for the app is understandable, and we should be sympathetic, rather than beat the man about the head.
Hell yes, I would’ve pulled support too. How long can it possibly be before device manufacturers and even Samsung itself pull their support as well? Why would Samsung let a device that has a very small market compared to phones, TVs, etc. tarnish its brand like this? I hate to be brutally honest but I think ST is gonna have to clean house and/or hire more capable programmers and engineers or whatever if they want to stay in the Home Automation and Security market.
You’re somewhat misconstruing what Alex and I said.
Yes there is an expectation to support their API functionality although again, I’m not sure that’s the purpose of the email support team, developers have much better access to the ST for developer specific functions if they choose to participate in them, some devs don’t. These are the tools that Alex is alluding to that are already there and will only continue to get better and better now that ST can re-focus efforts again.
So for example, if some call/function isn’t working or isn’t working the way they’d expect it to, they can reach out to the SmartThings team (again, the best way might not be through the email support line). However, the support team isn’t there to support the SmartApp/DTH itself, they probably can’t talk you through setting up a rule in RM for example, it’s not their place to do so although they may try their best, just don’t expect it.
This is exactly how F5 works with iRules on the Big-IP load balancers, they provide iRule functionality which is EXTREMELY powerful, they’ll support the functionality of iRules but they provide virtually no support for the iRules themselves that people write.
For reference I haven’t “beaten Bruce about the head” at all, I have my opinions on his response but I do worry that people will think that ST released a fix for the platform just because Bruce removed his SmartApp as that’s not the case, plans were already well in motion for the fixes that have been put in place and are being put in place.
While I respect Bruce and I like RM, there are other options and all he does by removing RM, as an end user is move me to those other options. It’s sad that Bruce has decided to pack up shop but while ST is still here, life goes on.
But no, when you expose a public API, that’s as much a part of your support environment as the applications you provide directly.
The company benefits when the community develops apps for others to use. The developer team can’t hold people’s hands, but they do have to ensure that no app is actively harming the system, and if an app is very popular, it’s in their best interest to ensure it works efficiently and correctly.
Alex mentioned providing a better set of tools developers can use for testing and/or finetuning their applications. This is part of the support. Good documentation is another. Monitoring tools so they can tell when an app is harmful is essential.
I’m not talking about email support. I see that for end users–the non-techs.
And I did not mention about helping end users use community provided apps–I’m talking about support for the developers so that they provide applications that don’t cause harm. And perhaps even embracing apps that achieve a certain level of popularity.
As for Bruce, well I can’t speak for him. But if I were him, I wouldn’t want my app to be used by people if there are underlying infrastructure issues causing problems with it. I don’t have enough hours in the day to help the end user because of issues out of my control.
When people provide apps, they’re doing the rest of us a kindness. And we should never take any of it for granted, or develop such expectations that we blame them if they decide it’s in everyone’s best interest to pull the app. If the app has become such an integral part of the device, then it is up the ST team to reach out to the developer and see what they can do to roll that app into the company-supported environment.
By no means do any of us have a right to have a snit. Ever.
I would say it’s more like you’re agreeing with me. Or that you didn’t understand what I wrote in the first place.
I did want to comment further on your previous writing:
No one thinks this. I’m not even sure why you would assume people would think this.
We’ve had issues with ST for quite some time. The status page has noted this for almost a month.
I’m assuming Bruce pulled his app, in part, because of the issues…but the real problems have been with SHM, ST’s official app. That and ZigBee, and scheduling, and device reliability, and…well, you get it.
… Hugs.