What if I wanted to stop using SmartThings and use some other hub?

Here is why I ask, I saw something about a hub being discontinued and not serviced anymore, turns out it is the 2013 version and I have the newest one or 3 I think, m/n IM6001-V3P01 and the main reason I have it is I have a Kwikset 916 Z-Wave Plus front door lock connected so I can use the app to lock and unlock it.

I was about to buy a 2nd Samsung hub identical to the one I have just as a backup, they were under $50 I think, but they dont make them anymore.

I am familiar with Aeotec Smart Home Hub and it is $125 on Amazon, and assume this would be the replacement.

I also have Nest and Alexa and an Iphone. What if I wanted to use Google home or something like that instead of SmartThings? What would I buy? If all I wanna do is connect the door and Nest and my Samsung TV’s and later maybe some lights?

Thanks (Connecting the TV’s is not a deal breaker)

p.s. And I have a RING video doorbell, but the app it comes with is fine I think. I guess connecting it to the home hub would be good. As usual I am not sure about that, for instance can I connect it to the Samsung Hub I now have and if I do will I still be able to function it using the RING app or does it cancel that out? I think I know the answer but might as well check.

I see I put this in the wrong forum, dont suppose I can move it?

Since your door lock is Zwave, you have to get something that can communicate with Z wave. Which isn’t google home. (Google home might be able to communicate with whatever zwave hub you have, which is how it works with smartthings. So you can’t use just Google home, you would have to get a new hub as well.)

There are definitely other options, but at this point if everything you have is working, I would just stay with what you have and wait to see what things look like in a year or so.

Zwave is an independent third-party standard, and it’s likely to be around for at least a few more years. (For one thing, it used in the ring security system.)

At the same time, there’s a new standard, “matter“, which has just been introduced and is going to try to make it easier to connect many different devices of many different protocols to several different voice assistants. Because the voice assistants (Google Home, Alexa, and Siri) Drive so much of the mass-market home automation sales right now, it’s likely that we will see many different devices become matter certified within a year or so. Then you’ll have a number of different choices to look at.

You are indeed right that the new Aeotec WASH (works as a smart things hub) is the replacement for the now discontinued V3 smart things hub, it’s actually a clone of that model with a new logo.

I don’t think it makes a lot of sense to buy back up devices that you aren’t going to use right now simply because it doesn’t sound like you’re all that invested in any particular put protocol at the moment. If Zwave survives, there will be more hubs available in the future. If by chance Z wave decided to discontinue the protocol, again, year from now there will be many different options to look at for home automation.

If you really want to look into alternative Z wave options right now, there definitely are some, each with its own pluses and minuses. Take a look at the following section of the forum:

Other Hubs - SmartThings Community

The only devices that can be connected “to“ the smartthings hub are Zigbee and Z wave. WiFi and cloud to cloud devices are connected at the account level, you can use those with smartthings even if you don’t have a smartthings hub at all. In fact, you don’t have to have a smartthings hub in order to use the smartthings app with a Samsung television, either. :sunglasses:

Consequently, you can almost always use those devices with their own app as well as with the smartthings app, and that’s true with the ring devices that work with smartthings. I’m just not sure if the doorbell is one of those or not. :thinking:

https://www.smartthings.com/partners/ring

Thanks, I guess what started me off on all this is what if my current hub broke, and I wanted to not use the new version of it but something like Google Home, but I dont even know if that is a hub, etc. I moved my question to other hubs I think, thanks,

Knowing what Zigbee/Z-Wave are is something I guess I should learn. I see RING works with them, at the end of the day all I need to know I guess is other than SmartThings what other HUB could I use to make my lock work. I will continue on the other forum as suggested.

you could get a used much cheaper ST v3 hub from ebay for around $50+. there would be no warranty though.

I have both ST and Ring. While ST is more of a ‘hobby’, Ring is more of a real alarm system.

Thanks…If I wanted to not use SmartThings for any reason, what other Hub systems or products would my Kwikset work with?

possibly Hubitat. their current hub is C7 and has the new 700 chip that the ST V3/Aeotec hubs do not. new they are $129 (was just recently on sale for $115) and on ebay for $100+. I have this one too, but so far just for testing and backup.

I used to run multiple sensors in the same area (i.e. 2 in a bedroom caddy corner facing each other) to be able to remotely check false alarms like from low batteries, but now i am spreading out those duplicate sensors across multiple hubs.

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Assuming your Kwikset is a zwave lock, It will work with any other certified Z wave controller, but that’s just for lock/unlock. Once you start getting into more advanced features, like being able to set the user codes from the app (instead of entering them on the pin pad) then different hubs may offer different options. So you just have to do some research.

Basically hubs fall into two kinds. The ones which are for more technical people where the interface looks more like programming and there may not be an app at all, or if there is, it may be pretty techie looking. And the more consumer friendly hubs which have a nice app and try to make things as easy as possible.

As far as Z wave goes, Smartthings alternatives might include:

A. Techie Hubs

  1. Hubitat is the most like smartthings in terms of the devices it can connect with and the kinds of rules you can set up, but they don’t give a lot of love to an app. You either need to have a good technical background or be willing to ask a lot of questions. They do have a very friendly community forum where people are willing to help.

  2. Homeseer. Very powerful Z wave hub which has been around for a while. But you definitely need to have a strong technical background for this one.

  3. vera/Ezlo. Less powerful than Homeseer, but also less expensive. One of the first hobbyist systems with widespread adoption, but no real app.

B. consumer friendly zwave hubs with easy to use apps

  1. Abode. Very nice app, very consumer friendly, but does require a monthly subscription. works with both zwave and Zigbee devices.

  2. Ring Alarm combined with Alexa routines. The ring alarm system is Z wave-based. They don’t really have any rules in their own app, but you can use Alexa routines for that even if you don’t have an Echo device.

So it all depends on what you’re looking for. Every hub has its own pluses and minuses, its own way of working, its own rules design, and its own list of integrations. So you just have to do some research to make sure you get the features that you want.

And again, if you don’t need to move now, I would wait. The introduction of the Matter standard is going to change a lot of things in home automation over the next year or so.

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It is available for $110 at The Smartest House

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I do agree with @JDRoberts if you dont need to move right now, just wait as things will be changing in the next year.

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Thanks to you and Awestun…and jkp

This is where I am confused, or was. I assumed Google Home was an “app” that you could use on your phone to control any number of things like Ring, Nest, Kwikset, various lights if plugged into smart plugs, etc.

That I would buy a “hub” from Google, for instance, or Nest or something owned by Google, and then that hub connects to the Google Home app and then I could connect the lock, ring, nest etc. But that apparently is not the case.

Yes my lock is a

security enabled Z-wave Plus product and must be used with a Security Enabled Z-wave controller to be fully utilized

Above is per the material that came with it.

I dont need to change anything, as stated earlier I read one of the hubs was being eliminated from service but it is not mine.

SMART SPEAKERS ARE HARDWARE

Google home was originally a smart speaker like an Amazon Echo. It has an app, but it isn’t an app. The line has since been renamed “nest hub“ which is a dumb name, because it isn’t a hub. :rage:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/home-mini-1st-generation-smart-speaker-with-google-assistant-charcoal/6082195.p?skuId=6082195

There are many different brands of devices that can communicate with it “cloud to cloud“, just like different brands of devices can communicate with Amazon Echo.

So echo and “Google home“ smart speakers are hardware.

THE MOST POPULAR VOICE ASSISTANTS ARE CLOUD SERVICES

Amazon’s voice assistant is called “Alexa.” Google’s voice assistant is called “Google assistant.” Apple’s voice assistant is called “Siri.” These voice assistants all run in the cloud. You connect to them by Internet.

The voice assistants all have their own apps. Because Google is really really bad at naming stuff, the app for “Google assistant“ is called “Google home“ just like the original smart speaker was. :scream:

SMART HOME DEVICES ARE HARDWARE WITH A RADIO INSIDE

Smart home devices have a radio inside. That radio might be used to connect to Wi-Fi, it might be used to connect directly to a phone, or it might be used to connect to a hub or bridge of some kind. Different “protocols” operate on different radio frequencies and have different messaging formats.

So a smart lock that uses Z wave can only talk to something else that has a Z wave radio. It can’t talk directly to a voice assistant. And it can’t talk directly to your phone. In the case of Z wave, there has to be a Z wave hub somewhere in the picture.

The same is true of zigbee: there has to be a zigbee hub somewhere in the picture. As it happens, Amazon has put a zigbee hub into some of its smart speakers, such as the echo plus and some of the echo show models. But not all of its smart speakers, you have to read the product descriptions. If you have an echo device with a zigbee hub inside, then you can connect a Zigbee lock or Zigbee sensor directly to it without needing a second zigbee hub. But that doesn’t help with your Z wave lock. Zigbee speaks only to Zigbee. Z wave speaks only to zwave.

Most hubs also have their own app these days.

If the smart home device uses Wi-Fi as its communication protocol (instead of zigbee or Z wave), then it can talk directly to the Internet and get to its “cloud“ and its cloud can send messages over to the voice assistant’s cloud. No additional hub required in your home.

This is how both Google assistant and Alexa are able to work with hundreds of devices without needing a hub. All of those devices will have a Wi-Fi connection to talk to their own cloud, and that cloud is sending messages over to the voice assistant, which is sending messages to the physical smart speaker in your home (a Google home or an Amazon echo).

YOUR SITUATION

So…

As long as you are using a Z wave device, you need to have a Z wave hub.

At this time, There are no smart speakers which are also Z wave hubs. Some of the Amazon echo smart speakers do have a zigbee hub inside, but that doesn’t help your situation.

At this time, the major voice assistants, including Alexa, Google Assistant, and Siri are all cloud-based (although the Echo Smart speakers that have a zigbee hub inside do offer a tiny bit of local voice processing for the Zigbeedevices which are directly connected to that smart speaker).

So as soon as you said that you were going to have a Z wave lock, you were describing a set up which would require some kind of Z wave hub. Google Home is a physical smart speaker which is not a hub of any kind. The voice assistant that Google Home uses is Google Assistant and its app is also called Google Home. It can communicate cloud to cloud with a lot of different devices, but not a Z wave device unless there is also a Z wave hub in the mix somewhere.

One option for you specifically might be to change out your Z wave lock and instead get a Wi-Fi version. Then you wouldn’t need a hub. You would still need something to set up rules with but that might even be the smartthings app depending on the exact model you chose. :sunglasses:

Note

There is also a separate app called “Google assistant.“ I have no idea what it does. It’s not the one that you used to set up a Google home smart speaker even though that smart speaker uses Google assistant as its AI.

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Wow, thanks! So the next question is and I will do my own search, what are the wifi based door lock options?

Initial search shows “simplisafe” as one. ULTRALOQ Smart Lock U-Bolt Pro + Bridge WiFi Adaptor is another, I guess.

And then there is Nest X Yale Lock With Nest Connect Review | PCMag and it has NEST connect.

None of these are based in Zwave or Zigbee I assume. Thanks again

There are several good ones now.

August was one of the first reliable WiFi locks. :sunglasses:

Schlage BE489 is a new Wi-Fi model from them.

Kwikset has a new Halo line which is WiFi.

Yale has several models.

Some of these locks are actually Bluetooth to a tiny plug-in Wi-Fi bridge which then communicates with Wi-Fi to other integrations. You just need to read the product descriptions.

And of course anything that works with Homekit is another possibility for you since you have an iPhone. You would probably want to also get the $99 Apple HomeKit mini to act as your HomeKit hub so you can have control from outside the home. But right now nest and ring don’t work directly with HomeKit, you would have to get another device is an intermediary. That’s yet another reason why I suggest waiting for a year or so until we find out what impact Maker is going to have on the industry.

And here’s the discussion thread on Matter:

Thanks, anything I get would have to work from anywhere in the world, so to speak, like my Kwikset does now. How do I tell which ones wont work remotely?

The product description should say. First rule of home automation: “the model number matters.“ Sometimes you just have to do the research. :thinking:

Not sure if I would recommend this product.

Just curious, why?

First, i don’t believe that lock has ever been supported on the ST platform. With google discontinuing Nest secure, I wonder how much of a future there will be for it.

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