“…they are prioritizing them over devices and services that would more dramatically improve their offering…” to YOU, but not to ME.
The items you would have prioritised (XBMC, Tasker, WMC, Kodi) are all useless to me.
Items you would have de-prioritised (Sonos, IFTTT, Logitech Harmony) are items I was already using before SmartThings came along and therefore are high on my list for integrating with SmartThings.
I agree that more effort should be put into the application approval / publication / installation side of things so that the connection between developers and end-users becomes seamless / invisible. (I.e. the “App Store” approach, but including all the supporting elements and processes before the store itself). Recent movement on the developer documentation front is an encouraging first sign, as were rumblings of app approvals in the wind…
One thing to bear in mind in all this, however, is that the SmartThings team has grown considerably and is likely to continue growing. Progress in one area does not necessarily mean another area is being starved of attention. You can’t complain that “they spent effort doing X when that effort should have been spent on Y” if they involve different competencies / skill-sets.
The SmartThings team is covering a fair range of topics (Hub hardware, Zigbee networks, Z-wave networks, software development toolset and documentation, cloud infrastructure for SmartApps, iOS development, Android development, WinPhone development, writing SmartApps, developing device handlers, product website, community websites / forums, Samsung skunkworks, integrating (and liasing) with third parties (Philips, Logitech, TCP, IFTTT, Aeon, GE, Fortrezz, Schlage, Kwikset, etc.), etc.).
It’s not going to be easy co-ordinating and prioritising all those moving parts and we should look to assist them wherever we can. One way we can assist is by providing constructive criticism.
I see criticisms such as the need to improve the publishing of and accessibility to SmartApps if the platform is to grow beyond the niche enthusiast market as valuable. Undoubtedly the team is already aware of this, but they need to understand the extent to which this is felt by their customers.
I see criticisms such as “they should have integrated X before integrating Y” as lacking value because:
They are typically a personal opinion readily countered by the
personal opinion of others - i.e. they verge on a matter of taste,
akin to the dreaded “iOS vs. Android” feuds which I so loathe.
They are complaining about time and resource already expended rather
than how best to expend those resources moving forward.
Rather than complaining about the integration of Sonos (etc.), which many others find very valuable, why don’t you champion the merits of an integration which you would like to see. Investigate how it might be achieved, put forward suggestions on features that would be valuable to such an integration or traps you would like to see avoided.
You have taken my quote out on context from the overall discussion. “…they are prioritizing them over devices and services that would more dramatically improve their offering…” to EVERYONE. I was not just naming one product, rather entire arrays of devices. The “they should have integrated X before integrating Y” argument is completely valid when small niche products are supported before major systems.
Offering broader device support instead of prioritizing proprietary and niche devices such as Sonos, IFTTT, & Dropcam does little to broaden ST’s offering or further community development. And while I’m sure the people that have those devices appreciate that they are supported, a much larger group of devices is currently left on the wayside. I will provide some examples.
Sonos: It’s a Hi-Fi wireless speaker system that uses a proprietary network system called “SonosNet” which is exactly the same as Wireless N except it uses their own encryption. It sounds awesome and works well.
What ST should have supported: Bluetooth streaming / broadcasting. There are a million bluetooth devices on the market. If ST wants us to be able to control music and alerts via wireless speakers why support one company with one protocol? If Bluetooth was properly supported, anyone could preform the same tasks currently done on the Sonos on a $10 wireless bluetooth speaker or headphones or phone or HTPC or Windows or Apple PC.
Dropcam: An easy to use HD network camera, accessible via the internet, which is capable of video streaming and burst photos when motion is detected. Recently purchased by Google/Nest Labs.
What ST should have supported: Standard IPcam video streaming (probably mpeg or avi/h.264). This has been hacked together in some user-made smart apps but no official support. A wide variety of cameras could be compatible if https streaming was supported.
IFTTT: It’s an easy to use online trigger service which integrates with a wide variety of services. A very cool idea, cross platform, and it’s free. Although triggering is generally too slow to be used for any time critical functions.
What ST should have supported: Many of the functions ST users accomplish with IFTTT are already be available from the ST app, but not all. Motion logging, text to engage a switch/lock, notification monitoring, voice control, etc.
:Rather than complaining about the integration of Sonos (etc.), which many others find very valuable, why don’t you champion the merits of an integration which you would like to see. Investigate how it might be achieved, put forward suggestions on features that would be valuable to such an integration or traps you would like to see avoided."
Please keep in mind, while it may not seem that way, Sonos, Nest, & Dropcam users are in the minority in comparison to the entire market of Bluetooth speakers, Wifi T-stats, & IP cameras. Smartthings is already well aware of what is required to support these devices yet their pipeline reflects an offering more niche instead of broad. Which is the heart of my concerns.
Items you would have de-prioritised (Sonos, IFTTT, Logitech Harmony) are items I was already using before SmartThings came along and therefore are high on my list for integrating with SmartThings.
These are products that you have under your supported list yet none of them work. This is something that needs to be fixed asap. Its almost false advertisement. I bought a Logitech Harmony Hub just for smartthings but it doesnt work at all.
Having dealt with Logitech support just to get the harmony to work on it’s own, I can tell you that whatever’s broken is more than likely Harmony’s fault. If an integration partner decides to push untested code into production, and or fail to notify partners of changes you get crap like this happening…
I read in another thread something about a known issue with the Logitech firmware that we all have to wait for to get fixed. Hell, I’m just waiting for the “pay $x and you can upgrade your existing hub to a HA one”.
Got the update here on Android too. still can’t pair with ST. i think this’ll require harmony update the ST smartapps or revert some of their hub firmware changes.
also to throw my two cents into the ring, xbmc/kodi could be made compatible pretty easily…just use the kodi web api and write a quick device type. (arguably the part that makes this tricky is the still lacking documentation, which i’d say is a pretty big issue) It looks like there’s some unofficial support already.
why i bought smartthings is because, as a developer, its the most amazing product for home automation on the market. sure, it has limitations - but with a little elbow greese things can be massaged into working.
as a user, the community supported things are awesome. actually most of the hardware i have connected to my hub is because of the great things people have come up with. official support would be nice, but of course supporting everything is impossible.
Nothing, unfortunately - just stability and bug fixes.
The firmware update for the original Harmony Ultimate to add home automation features is still to be released - hopefully sometime in the early part of this year.
I had no problems integrating the Logitech Harmony Home hub with my ST. I could control everything, and trigger the Logitech hub to do things based on motion sensors on my ST. Those folks with Logitech Harmony Control devices, please realize that Logitech never intended these products to integrate with ST, nor will likely do so in the future.
I have been a long follower of Logitech Harmony products, but I must admit the mobile UI on the newest 4.0 release is HORRIBLE. I have decided to return this device, and forgo Home Theater automation/ integration with ST. I can easily pick up my old Harmony One and turn on the TV, and if I want the lights to dim, shades/blinds to close, or other things to perform a Theater setting, I can have ST do that.
I would like to hear what creative integration you are looking to take advantage through the Harmony Hub, so I can reconsider purchasing on their next version. Hopefully ST will partner with other Universal Remote companies, or with the Samsung relationship, they can leverage some of their technology to manage the mixed product Home Theater.
I see some of you complaining about the Sonos integration. I have mine fully integrated, but it just gives me control to change the volume, unless fixed (connect), and advance to the next track. What it doesn’t do is replace the Sonos App. I would assume that those who say, “It doesn’t work”, would like the ST app to work like the Sonos App. I don’t think Sonos will ever let this happen, since this is considered their secret sauce. I would like meta data to show the album picture and info on the ST app, but beyond that, I am not sure why folks aren’t using the Sonos app for playing all their content. I also admit that it is annoying having to flip between apps to change my receiver volume for a Sonos Connect. The Logitech Harmony Home Hub allows you to have volume control through the ST app, and not have to flip.
I think it is important for ST to choose a camp on a speaker integration, and I feel Sonos is the best best. I would like to see support for general Bluetooth speakers, so you avoid lock in, and can leverage Google Cast or Airplay to send sound prompts.
The other item I definitely agree on is the camera integration. Although DropCam seems like a nice product, the ROI on what you get is horrible. They remind me of a fancier old fixed Dlink camera with a cool web/cloud interface. For the camera cost, you can get a Foscam 1.3 Megapixel camera, which will allow you significantly more clarity than the 720P drop cam. Also this camera has PTZ, unlike the DropCam. Support for Foscam or other generic IP cameras seems like a smarter approach, especially if Nest/Google decides to close down their ecosystem to other HA manufacturers.
Again, this is YOUR opinion. The priorities you propose would not improve their offering to ME and, ipso facto, not EVERYONE.
It is a little disingenuous to dismiss SonosNet as Wireless N with proprietary encryption. Sonos is the leading consumer level multi-room audio system on the market. It has been around for many years and seen off many competitors thanks to the SonosNet technology, which predates Wireless N and underpins their ability to properly synchronise audio between rooms. It should be telling that the press now typically refer to new multi-room offerings as “Sonos competitors”.
Whilst I know several people who have Sonos systems in their home, I don’t know anybody who uses Bluetooth speakers. The only time I see Bluetooth headsets used in a home environment is for private listening to music or with gaming consoles. In any event, a headset is pretty useless as a device for making announcements into the home; what percentage of the time do people wear headsets?
Furthermore, most Bluetooth devices are class 2 devices and are limited in range to 20-30 feet, which is insufficient reach between hub and speaker to provide coverage for a large proportion of homes.
And how would you have SmartThings provide this integration given the v.1 hub doesn’t have a Bluetooth interface?
There are 159 other channels on IFTTT providing potential input triggers or outputs for SmartThings smartapps. If we take away 30 or so channels, for devices which already have independent integration into SmartThings (Ubi, Wemo, Wink, SMS, Hue, etc.) that still means, for the effort of integrating IFTTT once, SmartThings now has access to over 120 (and growing) sources or sinks for events.
As IFTTT continues to add channels, SmartThings obtains access with no further expenditure of effort.
In my opinion, you’d have to be an idiot to be playing in the IoT space and not have IFTTT high on your list of desirable connections.
Are you seriously suggesting that instead of IFTTT they should have provided:
Motion logging - as in logging motion sensor events? Like SmartThings already does, or to an external log, as you can do with IFTTT?
Text to engage a switch/lock - so, presumably for a third party (no SmartThings app) without a smartphone (so can’t use ActiON Dashboard) but can send an SMS. That seems like a pretty niche market to me - isn’t that against your credo? My parents have cellphones, but don’t ask them to SMS.
Notification monitoring - unclear what you even mean for this one.
Voice control - how? Unless you mean Ubi (integration already in place), Echo (no API available yet), Siri/Homekit (see the Homekit thread(s)), etc.
Have you ever considered that maybe the “entire” market for Bluetooth speakers, etc. doesn’t correlate well with the market for home automation. Perhaps a very large portion of people buying those speakers (young people listening to music in their bedroom or away with their friends, perhaps?) aren’t home owners or even renting and home automation isn’t even on their radar.
In my circle, as I’ve pointed out, I know more Sonos households (5) than Bluetooth speaker households (0).
IP cameras and thermostats probably have a very good correlation with the target market. I suspect IP camera support will see a substantial boost with the premium DVR service announced at CES. But, both camera support and, even more so, thermostat support, is not a matter of “solve it for one device and they’ll all work”. See the ActiON Dashboard thread for proof of that. So, why would a Lennox, Ecobee, Honeywell or Vennstar thermostat, for example, be a better first choice than Nest, especially when Nest would also give loads of free publicity?
I keep coming back to my own experience, both of what I use personally and what I see my friends and colleagues using. All I can say is SmartThings has aligned very closely with products and services I had already selected for myself and which I know are well received amongst those I know. So, I personally vastly prefer SmartThings’ priorities to date over those which you would have selected.
if you are still relying on Logitech for remote controls, you may as well tell us you still listen to BonJovi & Def Leppard. It is 2016 and Logitech remotes belong in the bin.
Disagree. My Harmony Hubs/Remote work great. I turn off the TV at night, my house goes into sleep mode, adjusts thermostats, turns lights off, locks doors. Also work great with 4 physical buttons on my remote. Lastly, the integration with Alexa is awesome. “Alexa, turn on Nick Jr”, when my kid is crying for the tv.
A lot of folks here use Harmony remotes as it has a lot of integration points.
i’ve been in AV for 20+ years and remote controls are money wasters and time wasters for integrators. We have moved onto Bitwise system or Control 4. Spend some proper money get something other than toys and gimmicks. WiFi based removed through tablet or phone cross platform. macros easy to write to meet any command. That’s why i’m surprised there isn’t a platform for folks to write their own scripts and macros to all ST to be designed around all types of equipment seamlessly. This system is just so clunky and amateurish really when it boils down to the truth.
Some of it might impress a few kids with turning lamp on and off when they click the button on their phone or Fit bracelet, but technology is better than this today.
I’m just trying to find out if there are any real benefits in ST. Please impress me if there are but i’m not buying shares in it yet.
see, you have a remote in your harmony, the systems we integrate takes away all remotes. You already have your phone in your hand/pocket. That is the device you should be controlling everything with. And the technology is already there. That’s how we do it.
Everyone has a budget and for some folks, Logitech’s meet that budget and their requirements. There are more elegant solutions out there for sure, but options are good. My point is you shouldn’t come on these forums and start insulting people’s choices and options. Your entitled to your opinion, but you should be a little more diplomatic about it.
Control 4 is a waste of money. When I was looking at home automation solutions Control 4 was ruled out almost immediately when I found that you have to hire a licensed contractor to come out to install it and configure it. On top of that its only Zwave (at least at the time I was researching it) and a closed system. Control 4 is for rich non tech savvy people who dont know any better in my opinion.
Control 4 uses zigbee, not zwave, but it’s a proprietary zigbee. They’ve done some really great things with it and have many integrations. Technically it’s very solid (they’ve added secondary coordinators for Zigbee which lets you cover A really big house, which nobody else has done successfully).
The primary issue with it is cost. It’s very easy to run $10,000 a room with control 4. Way outside my budget. But if I could afford it, I would absolutely get a Control 4 system.
The other issue with control 4 is that they don’t expect the customer to do anything themselves. You pay them to make any changes. Which again adds to the cost. But in my case, since I need home automation for practical reasons (I’m quadriparetic with limited hand control), if I won the lottery I’d be in.
If you want home automation as a hobby then Control 4 is not for you, but if you’re willing to spend that amount of money you could build your own robotic system and do pretty much whatever you wanted.
So again, the main issue with control four is the cost. @pstuart could say more.
Smartthings costs $99. And in this case you get what you pay for. It really isn’t any more complicated than that.
There are excellent home automation systems out there that cost around $10,000 a room. Or even $15,000 if you’re including a lot of AV equipment.
There are old technology systems designed specifically for people in wheelchairs that work OK and are very stable, they cost about $8,000 for one room.
SmartThings is trying to solve all home automation problems for people whose budget is about $400 a room (and they’re going to complain about that cost). It’s a different world. A lot of the features will be limited, and we all know the stability isn’t there yet; it is what it is.
Harmony is a good fit for that specific niche market. With minimal cost, you can add AV controls into your low-cost home automation system. Of course it’s nowhere near the quality or complexity of a control 4 system. It’s a $99 solution. And again, you get what you pay for. But it’s still a good fit for that particular niche.
there are a lot of HA alternatives, each with their own pluses and minuses.
I don’t judge SmartThings for what it isn’t, which is to say I don’t compare it against a control 4 or crestron system. I don’t even compare it against a programming platform.
But I do expect it to meet consumer-ready mass market standards for usability and reliability. Which is to say, I expect it to be about as reliable as a Logitech Harmony or a Phillips hue bridge or a Lutron SmartBridge. Because when I look at a low-end tech product, that’s what I expect from a value brand. That it should do what it does reliably.
The CTO for SmartThings once said that he wanted to get to the point where SmartThings was the last piece you considered if a light wasn’t working at home. I think that’s a perfectly reasonable goal for a low-end home automation system. It might have limited features, it might have limited versatility, but once it’s set up it should just work. That’s the bit I’m still waiting for from SmartThings.
If you want to be able to do heavy duty local programming, then SmartThings is not going to be the best match for your needs. Nothing wrong with that. That’s not how it’s marketed, and it’s not what it delivers.
