Here’s my ticket from the end of last week.
[SmartThings Support] Support request #205495: Database corruption
Fire sale? Lol
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That’s funny:smile: Perhaps they are enticing those of us who are fed up to stay.
Not only a fire sale, but the app now has a variety of options for colored bulbs… Wow!
@slagle, @Ben, @alex I’m so absolutely overjoyed that the app has options for colored bulbs… Yes, that was sarcasm… How about a little less ‘flash,’ and a little more substance (like a working platform)?
Your excuses are tired and worn at this point, and I think I speak for a large percentage of us who just DON’T BELIEVE YOU when you claim it’s getting better.
Just read through this thread - continued data loss, plus other threads that talk about loss of control of Zigbee devices (I have two OSRAM Lightify bulbs that are uncontrollable at this point).
Honestly, if @bravenel has to withdraw Rule Machine, I’ll be pulling my hub out, bringing it to your HQ and smashing it with a sledgehammer in your lobby. Yes, I’m that pissed off. You’ve all had numerous chances to fix this, and you’ve frittered them away with more BS marketing drivel. It’s 2016 - the state of the art in Cloud-connected systems is pretty well known at this point, and you folks aren’t it.
I’m so frustrated that I reached out to the highest levels of Samsung I still have access to (EVP) as a former employee. I certainly hope they are putting the right amount of pressure on you (and maybe giving you some resources). I also hope you’re all at least slightly chagrined at what a horrible image you’re giving to Samsung with this ridiculous platform reliability issue.
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And now Smart Tiles throws an exception… coincidence @tgauchat? 
Grr…
What’s the error message?
- If it says “invalid token”, then, yes, indeed that is a symptom of lost
stateinformation. Internally the access token is stored for authorization control.
(If something else, let me know in a Private Message so as not to take this thread off track.)
Our old friend UndeclaredThrowableException.
{“error”:true,“type”:“java.lang.reflect.UndeclaredThrowableException”,“message”:“An unexpected error occurred.”}
Hi Guy,
If this error is reproducible, could you please send me the Live Logging output to Support@SmartTiles.click
Thank-you!
It’s two fold. ST should fix their issues, but ST takes forever to do anything. I can’t be fixing my rules/triggers multiple times per week, it’s not sustaintable. I’d sooner spend that time writing my own app that does work around the ST bugs.
If RM doesn’t attempt any work-arounds, then I will, I’ve already switched to a few other ST smartapps to work-around these issues, like remote controller, which can set routines based on button presses, and smart lighting which can handle a lot of oddball tasks, but sucks at handling toggles, the one thing I’m still depending on RM for.
Truth be told, I will probably look into writing or modifying my own app if no work-around is put in place. I don’t really care about 70% of the RM features - i just need to setup lighting scenes with multiple dimming levels and have properly functioning toggles (which smart lighting has still not fixed)
How deeply have you dug into said corruption? What values are becoming corrupted? Would re-structuring your data in some way help work-around the problem? I’m willing to look at the code and make suggestions but if you’re unwilling to help work-around it, that’s almost as bad as the response ST is gonna give us, because they’re going to be saying nothing for a while, and then eventually they’ll say they’re gonna fix it, but then it might take half a year. I don’t have time for that. I could sooner write my own app in the time i’ve wasted remaking rules over and over again.
Look, i’m not trying to be a pain - i’ve already had to work around ST bugs in my alarm integration code, in regards to the way they handle adding/removing child devices and not actually updating the list of devices when things are removed. This has just become the reality for me, I’m not going to give up so easily unless I can be 100% sure there’s no work-around.
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Sorry, but there is no way to “work around” the entire application state of an app just vanishing, other than to not have an application state.
Go for it, have fun!!
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I’d agree with you, if rulemachine wasn’t the only app I’m using that’s doing this.
Not all my apps are just losing state, just yours. And your app didn’t do this until you split the GUI up - I don’t know what code changes under the hood went along with that. It didn’t always happen. That’s enough for me to think you can do something about it.
Same here. Sorry, but you’re wrong about when this began. It had nothing to do with the UI change. Yes, it didn’t happen before the UI change, because it didn’t happen before 22 days ago (long after the UI change). So nice theory, that I can do something about it. Just wrong.
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You’re right, the UI change could just be a coincidental red-herring. The theory is easy enough to test - I could go revert to an older commit. Unfortunately, there’s no easy way to reproduce the breakage…so we’d just be waiting around until it either breaks, or not.
I’m not trying to point fingers - i just want an idea of what’s happening so we can try to do something about it. Like I said in my one post edit, I’ve already had to work around ST bugs in my own code - in regards to their parent/child device handling, i’m used to having to work around ST brokenness. So I’m looking for any potential solutions here…
I just think it’s odd that rulemachine is the only app I have doing this - and it’s not even the only parent/child app or anything, I’m using a whole bunch of apps, including my own, and none of them seem to be corrupting state outside of RM.
Without reading over this entire thread (with nearly 4k posts), what happened 22 days ago? ST DB corruption?
Join the club, except I am pointing fingers. At ST.
There are others who have issues like this, including SmartTiles. Rule Machine is not the only app that this has happened too, so that too is a red herring.
What did happen 22 days ago? They don’t seem to know. I reported it right away, and we have all be banging on them ever since.
You have to bear in mind that Rule Machine is not a small app, and it has a lot of application state. Smart Lighting has no application state at all. So guess how many Smart Lighting rules have lost their heads? Also, there are people with 60, 70, 80 or more rules. That’s a lot of exposure. How many apps do you have with 60 instances?
The basic fact is that the platform is deleting (misplacing?) application state, and this started 22 days ago. Before that, nobody had any issues at all with Rule application state. Most issues people had were related to schedules being missed, a well worn and well known issue. Then, bam! The wheels came off. Did you notice how at the same time ST threw up all of these “degraded” status on their platform status, 22 days ago? Now those are all back to “operational” except for SmartApps. Right, that’s accurate for sure.
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I’ve had rule machine and Alexa helper affected by this.
The only other parent child app I use is smart lighting, but we already know why that isn’t breaking.
This is most definitely at the ST end, not on the apps.
You’re trying to blame the makers of car tires tired because the windshield wipers don’t work.
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Or, to view from a different perspective.
RM, is the FRONT END, be that Android, Crapple or Windoze… It creates and updates “events” [for lack of a better description] ON THE SERVER. What I am saying is that NOTHING gets done locally, be that the app or the little white box…
So pray tell how the frack RM is responsible for back-end corruption / non-functionality.???
I set stuff up and having verified them as functional, they become non-functional! I didn’t even look at it boss!
If anything RM has pushed the development envelope to the n-th degree, and exposed the weaknesses in the ST system!
If, and when I jump ship, I can only hope that an app like RM gets developed on my eventual platform choice. RM is, and remains a stroke of genius for me.
J
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There is a user who had his modes vanish this morning. Others have reported rooms vanishing.
Does anyone think these are related to application state vanishing?
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Maybe, maybe not. RM worked just fine until 22 days ago, and it hasn’t grown since or pushed new boundaries. They broke something that used to work.
That is a loop invariant for this company and this platform. They are constantly breaking it. It works, they break it. Over and over and over…
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Fair enough. I have no doubt that ST broke something that should be working. The question is can we actually do anything to work around it.
Admittedly, I’ve had my fair share of issues with smart tiles, too. Being unable to update/delete my dashboards, etc…for the longest time i was unable to edit or delete my first dashboard but randomly it just worked again. Oh well. Once I got my dashboards all setup - it was mostly OK after that. I haven’t had any dashboards lost, nor have I had to re-create them, though.
My alarm app also doesn’t use states either, though i’d been considering it to store event history to later recall to devices, but I opted against it, and it seems this may have been for the better…
In that regard I am almost worried RM is getting too big for it’s own good, but I get it, it’s trying to cover everything. And I do like it for that. Right now, I went from having probably 20-30 rules to maybe just 10, and I’ve moved all the rules that I can handle elsewhere out of RM for now. Button presses to change routines, I’ve moved to remote controller, and anything that I don’t need a toggle for, I’ve moved to smart lighting. I’ve been very tempted to go modify that “dim and dimmer” app to support routines instead of modes and that might cover the rest of my needs. But I really want RM to work.
Is it only the application state getting corrupted? Are any of the “settings” getting corrupted?
@bamarayne naw that’s not what i’m trying to do - i realize there’s an ST problem, but I also have worked around “ST problems” in my own apps, through a variety of means. I’m just poking and prodding to see if we can do the same things here.
FWIW, I have never had any rooms or modes vanish on me.
Oh come on, it’s just an app in Groovy. It’s not radical in any way. It’s not as if the platform was struggling with the size of an app and hit some breaking point. Or, if that is the case, bye bye Smart Things!
As far as I can tell it is only Application State.
Not with Rule Machine, there isn’t. Write your own apps to do what you need instead. For me, as just someone who was trying to help out, it’s a terribly insulting position to be put in. I’m being impugned by their bad acts, painted with their tar brush. There is only so much of that worth putting up with. No good deed goes unpunished.
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