Robin pushing the boundaries again.
1 Like
are folks consensus still the same for hubitat? seems like they’ve come a long way since this was discussed here.
it would be great to know if smartthings plan on enabling full local processing but i don’t think that’s even possible now. if the migration is mandated and manual for classic to new smartthings i’m goin to move onto something else (if it’s not local)
2 Likes
Why is that ? Didn’t realise they were
IMHO, over the past year Hubitat has made huge advancements in their all-local-processing platform. For example, Rule Machine 3.0 now has so many new features, that very few people are even trying to use webCoRE on Hubitat any longer. Hubitat just released their mobile phone/tablet app. It supports push notifications, geofence-based presence, and dashboard viewing. It also supports multiple users, each being able to receive independent push notifications. As per design, all system administration is handled via the hub’s built-in web application.
While it is true that SmartThings has improved their hub firmware to allow more devices to run locally, they’ve really made no progress in making any SmartApps run locally other than the original Smart Lighting. Pretty much everything else runs in the cloud and thus depends on a reliable ISP connection AND a reliable cloud computing platform. Neither of these are a trivial to deliver.
SmartThings still has quite a few more official integrations compared to Hubitat. I won’t dispute that. However, many Hubitat users have either found creative ways to ‘fill the gaps’ (e.g. using Alexa Routines to make Ring Doorbell events show up in Hubitat), or they are using both platforms connected by a recent integration called HubConnect. Hubitat also has some integrations that work much better than ST’s, like the popular Lutron Integrator which is all local, and supports Dimmers, Switches, Fan Controllers, and the ever popular Pico Remotes.
Both platforms have their pros and cons. And…there is no reason you cannot run both side-by-side to leverage each platform’s strengths.
4 Likes
Goodness you may have just sold me to run both for a while. Thanks I think ! But I’d have to run two ZigBee networks. Not sure how that goes.
1 Like
I have run 4 Zigbee networks at a time…no issues. YMMV, of course.
I use Zigbee channel 20 on my primary Zigbee network as it seems to work well with older SmartThings devices (circa 2014.)
2 Likes
Ok, In today’s world, what exactly is the hype about your home automation running local.
How often does the internet go down? Mine hasn’t gone down in at least a couple of years.
So, what does it matter? I don’t see a difference in speed either.
6 Likes
It’s not just the Internet, it’s the cloud.
And it’s not just that it becomes unavailable, although historically SmartThings does become unavailable at least once a month and usually more although typically only for a few minutes and you may not even notice.
It’s that when the system is cloud dependent they can and do make undocumented changes regularly. Frequently. And those changes in and of themselves cause problems for customers. Not all customers, not all the time, but quite a few and with a lot of frustration.
It means there is no way to delay or deny Those updates because the updates are not happening on your device. They are happening in the cloud.
So they’re just random failures, changes in operation, missing features. The forum is full of them.
If the system is local, you control when changes are made. And in most cases and this is true for Hubitat, you can roll back to a previous version if the new version does have problems.
Running local is a really big deal if we want home automation to truly be an essential service.
Amazon added local operation for some devices just a few months ago.
Even Amazon echo has now added limited local voice processing. It did it after literally years of not having anything local. It only runs with Zigbee devices which are connected directly to an echo plus or a second generation echo show but the fact that they have added that as a new feature in the last six months tells you there is a reason for it. It means you or your kids can say “echo, lights on“ and some lights will come on. 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=GCC6XV9DX58VW5YW
I only have two devices connected directly, they are my backup for emergencies. But if the power is still on, I can turn on the light in the hallway right outside my bedroom and the light in the next hallway in the entry area by the front door and I would be able to get from my bedroom to the front door even if the Internet is out.
Having a stable system is critical to home automation. I think that in itself was a large part of the motivation for the Hubitat founders. They were tired of having everything working great, going to sleep, waking up in the morning and it wasn’t working when they themselves had not changed anything. A local system protects you from that scenario.
Then there’s also the whole issue of privacy, but that’s a different matter. 
5 Likes
The privacy part is funny to me.
There is no such thing as privacy.
Yeah, like I said, privacy is a different discussion because people have very different feelings about it.
But the issue of “this has been working great for six months and now it’s stopped working and I didn’t change anything“ is one that pretty much everybody has the same feeling about. 
4 Likes
I agree with you on all points. That has always been one of the most incredibly frustrating things about ST. At least now that have active participants in the beta program so there is some testing of releases before being pushed. Actually, there is quite a bit of it and they are really responsive to the issues that are found.
It would be nice to have the db backup capability and the ability to choose if we want an update. But, I understand the issues about the updates. They are on the servers and our hubs are basically fancy access points.
3 Likes
i would love to have my processes run 1-2 seconds faster. right now my lights turn on 2 seconds after i enter a room on a good day. i just like the cleanliness of local and it running faster.
i have no issues with downtime rarely - but i don’t want to worry about it at all.
2 Likes
I think a system that is going to run local as much as possible as well as have a cloud interface for third party integration needs to be much more powerful than the current hubs on the market at this price point.
I personally would love to see a company that was willing to sale their (locked) hub firmware only. Not on a hub or anything else. But, designed to work on a standalone system of your choice. This would give the user the ability to have a very robust system in which they keep running. This would of course cause problems with some users as they refuse to read the directions and then demand service for the Commodore 64 server in the basement. But, I think it would be a lot cheaper for a company and would be more versatile.
These systems already exist, they existed long before before smartthings. Homeseer and Indigo can both be purchased as software only and then use a USB stick on a laptop or pi for the radio. Or you can get one of the open source ones like home assistant (HASS). The Issue is that they are not mass-market. But the technical specs are not a big deal.
5 Likes
The reason why they are not mass-marketed is because the “smart home” didn’t hit the mainstream until accessing your home through the cloud was possible. X10 has been around since the 70’s but is attractive to a small segment. One needs good cloud infrastructure copled with a solid local processing in order to attract the masses. Google’s “breakthrough’” of compressing their AI power into a file that can run on virtually anything, is a great begining of what is yet to come. I cannot see how that will work out for them.
1 Like
I’ve seen that argument before, and if you replace “smart home” with “voice assistants,” I buy it completely. The cloud made practical natural language processing possible. And you could certainly argue that voice assistants have helped expand the smart home market.
But I would argue that the primary reason that smart home is now so much more broadly accepted was the manufacturers, particularly Phillips with the Hue line, reframed their sense of what “smart Home” meant. It’s not the Jetsons’ house all in one step. It’s not fully automated predictive AI. It’s not robots and drones.
Instead, it’s the equivalent of a microwave: simple, reliable, easy to use, visibly different from old tech, and fun.
In other words, the Philips Hue Bridge. 
This hit the market a few months before Nest. It was easy, it was practical, it was fun. It was a very expensive light bulb—but it was a very expensive light bulb that sold a lot of units. And that people loved, and loved to show off. And it ran locally.
It did require a smartphone. But it didn’t require the cloud. And it was definitely a mass market product.
2012 Hue ad: “personalized lighting system.”
3 Likes
…and you could even turn your lights off from your phone when you are at work 
May not require the cloud but sure you need the cloud to turn off your lights remotely LOL
1 Like
Sure, there was an optional cloud component, but that’s not what they were advertising and at that point that’s not why people were buying it.
Maybe? It’s only their 6th bullet in their original sales pitch
“Turn on/turn off lights when not at home”
In the industry press release, yes. But my point was that in the mass-market advertising, like the video, they didn’t emphasize that at all. The ad was all about playing with color and personalizing.
Sorry if I wasn’t clear.
1 Like