thank you RBoy!!!
Going to totally ignore all your questions and answer one you didn’t ask instead. (I’m shopping for locks too, and have no answers for any asked.)
The thing I’ve been taking into consideration with my research is that electronic locks are adding potential security weaknesses. If my network, SmartThings, Hue, etc., are hacked, then my house would be wide open. I’ve resigned myself to be okay with that, if it’s a trade-off. Traditional locks are pathetically easy to bump, pick, drill, break or otherwise defeat. I’m not willing to take an unsecure paradigm and add on top that some kid in Czechia could hack my house and sell it to the (online) crack head, but I’ll trade one for the other. In short, I’ll be going keyless.
The main issue I have with that (which I’m also shopping around for), is having a back-up. If sh…stuff goes wrong, I don’t want to stuck outside with spoiling groceries, trying to figure out which window will be the cheapest to replace. Battery life is obviously important, but also make certain there’s a backup power system. Most have terminals to connect an external battery. Then, at least it’s on me for having to figure out which window to break to get inside to find another battery, because I forgot to put a spare one somewhere outside.
Couple of thoughts on security and locked out:
- Check out the Schlage BE469 which has an excellent tamper alarm built in for this purpose, it’s sensitivity range is enormous - from the slightest touch on the door to some trying to break down the door - (e.g. we use the Schlage Alarm Mode app to change the sensitivity for different modes, while at home, very sensitive so I know if someone is at the door and at away it’s higher so is someone’s tampering with it it will set off an alarm)
- A very valid concern is being locked out due to loss of connectivity but what if you’re away and the batteries die? Some Yale Real Living lock models have an external battery connector, you can remove the cover and attach a 9v battery to the connector to “jump” start the lock, enter your codes and gain access to your door. Key point here, as long as your lock has atleast one code programmed you should always be able to access it even if you lose connectivity as long as the lock has a power source
The (1) “smart lock” is only for convenience. The rest of the deadbolts are traditional. The idea is “not” to go “keyless”, will always carry the key. Yes, when you set your home up as a so-called “smart home” you will obviously open it up to everything that comes with that.
Either way, thanks all for the input for now… I’ve decided to get the Kwikset 914 for my own personal reasons even though both this one and the Schlage Connect Camelot are roughly the same cost (around $160±) and probably better. I can easily return the Kwikset if it in fact is inferior…but really, one can analyze all day, but ultimately must decide in order to move on.
I know the Samsung locks have a battery terminal on the side. No need to remove a panel.
edit: My understanding is that this is NOT a “smart” lock. It does NOT connect to SmartThings! Real disappointment, especially since it’s from Samsung.
Not endorsing it, but frankly, with an electronic lock, if there’s not a convenient way to do it, don’t buy it!
I got the Kwikset 910 last summer as my first z-wave device when my wife was laid up from foot surgery and the ancient deadbolt wouldn’t unlock when I came back with lunch…
almost a year later, it’s on a second set of batteries. Most of the time, I use the keypad to lock or unlock it.
I have a hybrid ADT Pulse and ST dual hub environment. ADT is set to auto-lock it when I set the alarm. Otherwise, I don’t issue many door commands over z-wave. Alexa won’t touch it, even to lock it in a Routine.
Now my unit’s not the same as yours, but I’d bet they’re similar tech bits, just different form factor.
I’m not sure what would make a KwikSet not as secure as Shlage. I’m sure both can be picked and your door can be kicked in even with a perfect deadbolt. The keypad is a reasonable protection against ST being down AND you lost your key.
The details are in the FAQ linked to above, or you can ask a locksmith. The short answer is that Kwikset uses some aluminum parts where the other two brands use steel or brass, and uses thinner parts on top of that. . They are rated by a third-party security organization and you can see the ratings on the box.
Here’s a teardown video directly comparing Schlage to Kwikset. A lot of people won’t think the quality difference is worth the price difference, but the difference is there.
As the locksmith in the video explains about Kwikset:
They’ve used as little material as they possibly can in order to save money
And that’s on pretty much every part of the lock, creating multiple vulnerabilities when compared to the higher end brands.
My daughter did get locked out at our vacation home in Florida, coming from oversees. She had to sleep in the car overnight and I had to contact a person who has a physical key to our house. Problem: Batteries empty
Solution(s): I converted my battery operated Kwikset lock to a power supply powered one. I also have a keypad at the garage door. I am hiding a real key outside (not under a fake rock…).
that lock looks slick…but the wife would hate it… looks to fit the appearance of a modern home or commercial office etc. In our case, we get DIRECT SUN/HEAT most of the time, so that BLACK lock isn’t going to hold up.
External power contact connection…seems to be a good way/point to over-electrify it from outside? Could probably do the same either way anyways by jabbing a probe through the front keypad.
No key? but I guess a “card”? So ultimately still dependent on power… yeah, no, I’ll stick with the traditional deadbolt with KEY backup option. man, it says “SAMSUNG” on it like the TVs etc…so much for being inconspicuous. Nothing against Samsung, have their best TV’s, phones etc, but front main entry lock?
For what it’s worth, we had published a rough guideline to managing battery levels for different types of devices.
Lock, especially deadbolts are notorious for causing a voltage drop due to heavy current draw on the deadbolt motor. This sudden current draw causes the voltage to drop and sometimes the locks “shut down” prematurely due to sudden voltage drop. Once they shut down they won’t power back up. (the voltage calibration on some of these locks isn’t good)
This issue is exasperated with Schlage Connect deadbolts so here’s a rough guideline for changing batteries:
- Schlage deadbolts (BE468/BE469/Connect) - 70% recommended, < 50% sudden shutoff
- Schlage electronic (FE599) - 50% recommended, < 30% sudden shutoff
- Yale deadbolts (YRDxxx, T1L etc) - 30% recommended, < 10% sudden shut off
YMMV, again this is just our experience, you can also find battery level recommendations for other devices also, it’s better to be safe than sorry, especially with locks.
With the Yale, as was mentioned, you can power it externally from any 9 V battery long enough to enter your key code. So if you live near a 24 hour grocery store, you’ve got a backup if needed. Again, different people will address this issue in different ways. As I’ve mentioned, I change batteries at my house for critical usage items like locks on a set schedule at what is a much higher reserve than most people would change them out, then we put those batteries into a drawer that we use for less critical things like game controllers are flashlight at what is a much higher reserve than most people would change them out, then we put those batteries into a drawer that we use for less critical things like game controllers or toys or entertainment devices. So we do get full use out of the batteries, but we’re not in much danger of something like a lock dying unexpectedly, or toys or entertainment devices. So we do get full use out of the batteries, but we’re not in much danger of something like a like a dying unexpectedly.
As per JDRoberts, the difference is there. Most (all?) Kwikset locks can be “bumped”. My understanding how that works is a special key is used that makes the pins stick into their correct position (when the lock is hit). It’s essentially a master key for every vulnerable lock (regardless of brand), and requires no skill and only a fraction of a second longer than using the key. Most Schlage locks are bumpproof.
Kwikset locks are also vulnerable to drilling out the pins. Schlage has a layer of protection or don’t allow it at all. (I’m not sure if this applies to deadbolts, since you’d still need to rotate the cylinder.)
Most every lock, there’s also a way to drill out the cylinder, where the drill location is dependent on the specific lock. I’m not sure how that works in terms of the mechanical components, but Schlage adds layer of protection. granted, that requires familiarity with each and every lock model.
Door knobs in particular can be simply snapped off (which doesn’t apply to deadbolts). Schlage has heavier screws.
There’s also the issue of how many unique keys there are (specifically, for one area). Believe it or not, many brands don’t offer many different keys combinations, and often sell them in batches. This allows someone to have a couple keys for each major brand, and try every one on a street. Indeed, with new developments by lax contractors, a single key could open every lock. My understanding is that Kwickset is horrible about this.
Then you get into lock picking. At that point, at least you can know you’ve been robbed by a pro (or at least someone who watched some YouTube videos and practiced a little), but Schlage has more pins. Each additional pin makes picking exponentially more difficult.
Finally, there’s good-ole-fashioned social engineering. The Washington Times ran an article about the TSA, and included a photo of the master key they use to secure baggage. The resolution was sufficient to make copies. You don’t need the physical key; you only need the data encoded on the physical key. (Also, the keycode is often printed on the packaging, which is also true for Schlage. I’d never buy a lock from a store with a code - I’d only order online.) This is possible with electronic RFID, but again… At least you know you’ve been robbed by someone who at least has watched YouTube video and invested in an RFID reader/writer. (And with the lock I linked, RFID is an option than can be disabled - I’d assume the same applies for most keypad locks that support RFID.)
For me, the multiple long-standing vulnerabilities of a physical key lock are simply too great for this day and age. IMHO it’s time to switch to a different set of less well known vulnerabilities
I bought a 914 nickel about a year ago. It has been performing flawlessly.
We just replaced the front door and the new hardware is bronze. I found an open box 914 bronze on ebay, and swapped the module from the nickel to the bronze and it works great. I now have a complete 914 nickel on the shelf.
I also like being able to use our Kwikset keys from the old lock. We have someone that cleans for us and coding the lock for that key was easy.
Good to hear Tom, thank you.
I have both the 914 and a 910 deadbolt in nickel satin and they both work flawless with ST
Another thing to consider is I noticed a post pertaining to RBoys lock apps etc that probably best to get Z-wave also as certain things work only with Z-wave? REMOTE PROGRAMMING?
RBoy may be able to add that important info as I am not sure about it.
Lock is also a tad noisy if some mind that… not crazy loud, just enough to hear the motor turning and latch locking…fair say I assume most lock sound like this… turn knob tolerance play is a little loose, supposed to point straight up or left/right… but has play…not a deal breaker, but thought I’d mention it… no experience with the Schlage, but if a concern, the Schlage I would “assume” is better in this dept…not that the Kwikset 914 is terrible, but the Schlage might be better overall if everything else fits your criteria.
Just about everybody who uses SmartThings has had some random weirdness at some point which was absolutely not user error.
The best conclusion you should draw from this experience is that the SmartThings platform occasionally has glitches. Some will affect everyone, most will only affect some people. Sometimes it will affect you, sometimes it will affect someone else. You will get along best in this community if you just believe people whether they say something works for them or something didn’t. Because they are probably correctly describing their own experience on that particular day.
If you would like to see a history of glitches which have been reported and confirmed by at least three people over the last year or two, check the first bug reports page in the community – created wiki.
I’m very glad it worked for you. I hope that it continues to do so. But please don’t make the assumption that anyone else was just “doing it wrong” if they had a different experience.
As far as battery replacement – – it may vary from model to model, but as far as I know a screwdriver is not required to replace batteries in most Schlage or Yale locks.
I bought the Kwikset 912 a few years ago without the Z-wave chip. Figured I’d get it separately if I ever set up a Smart Home. The kids loved it because they didn’t have to wait for the parents to unlock the door when we got home. A few months ago, I bought the chip on Ebay for $40 and it works great. I go through batteries after about 4-6 months. It’s working great with ST.
I recently purchased a used ZigBee (at least that’s what the instructions say) 914, and I can’t get it to pair with ST. I’ve tried all the suggestions that I’ve seen in other posts, etc., but no luck. I’ve also seen it mentioned that only the Z-Wave devices work, which I assume is old news, since the paring selection has a selection for the ZigBee version.
Any suggestions on how to debug this? The LED on the lock doesn’t give any indication that it’s in pairing mode. I don’t know if that means it’s broken, or if it’s just poor design.
My guess is that the radio is broken and I’ll have to send it back…
I don’t know if it is still the case but the original Schlage Z-Wave locks were specifically designed for use with Nexia. They worked with other Z-Wave controllers but you could only upgrade the firmware through Nexia. If everything worked great from the go, then Schlage was great. But if not and you needed to upgrade the firmware for some feature to work, you were out of luck unless you were using Nexia. That was my situation. For this reason, I removed my Schlage locks and replaced them with Kwikset SmartCode 916 locks. I have had no problems with Kwikset locks.