I am approaching 6 years with SmartThings, but it is quite likely I will not get to 7. I feel let down, ignored and angry at a company that initially made many of my home automation dreams come true. My hunger for more was mostly in line with their promises, but at this point it seems that is all they are, or their timelines are simply insanely long. I am tired of waiting for the next big step (local processing, decent Android app, web browser control) from ST. This week I finally gave in and purchased a Hubitat Elevation hub and have begun analyzing the best approach to finally get rid of the slow and unreliable cloud! Cloud: It is slow! Way too slow! For example, many automations involving lights need to be nearly instantaneous. A second or two delay is simply unacceptable. How many times have you walked half way in a room and the motion-controlled light is still off? Even simply syncing two lights takes forever so when I turn on my entrance light, I am half way into the darkness of my hall before the lights start to turn on. The selection of local devices is too restrictive and often they only expose the bare minimum. What is the point of buying fancy automation gear if most features are unavailable if you want local performance? While I can accept some automations not to work if the cloud, or internet connectivity, is down, my current experience is that the entire house stops working. It seems like a trivial issue until it happens and you realize how dependent and addicted to it you have become. Sometimes it is not a matter of pressing the light switch with your finger… sometimes you rely on automation to cut off water before a freeze in a remote location, or more mundane things like lights and laser guide to park in my cramped garage fail to work when needed and I risk damaging the car or have to get out to ensure I am in the right spot. Why? We want and need LOCAL CONTROL, not the cloud BS. App (Android in my case): The old app was pretty bad… clearly made for small numbers of devices and with an outdated look. It was very slow to load devices, and required many clicks to get stuff done. I got round this by relying on a dozen Echos around the house, and increasing the number of things that ‘just happen’ so that I would not have to open the app. Along comes the new app… and things simply got worse. I was recently in a beta for the new app. I thought it was going to result in a 2.0 (from 1.7 or so that we are at) but to great dismay it felt like they were twiddling with insignificant features rather than addressing the big usability issues. At the end of the beta it felt like the steps forward were worth a 0.0.1 revision increase, maybe less. I get it, the most common ST user has 15 devices (rumor has it) so ST appears to only care about those users. I have over 200 objects (be they C2C, virtual or physical) and literally despise having to use the new app. The promised support for custom handlers needed to get access to all features of the ‘fancy automation gear’ has yet to materialize and usability for large numbers of devices has gotten significantly worse. Why? I do not know whether I classify as a ‘power user’ but I definitely feel unwelcomed as most of the original power users I learnt from in the ST forums over the years. You know where I found the vast majority of them? Hubitat Community forums! ST – why are you alienating those who can drive innovation and adoption? People who push the boundaries and develop new code they graciously share with those of us who are unable or unwilling to program? You should listen to them and keep them close! Sorry for the lengthy soap box rant, but I am ready to throw in the sponge at ST and to move on. We will see how things go with Hubitat. It might be a full-on replacement, or maybe it will just take over all the devices/automations where I need to get rid of the cloud to benefit from speed and reliability… If ST ever sees the light, and offers more comprehensive LOCAL control, who knows, I might come back or stick around longer if not fully migrated yet.

Just got this email - awesome news: https://mailchi.mp/3cc40c582267/see-our-next-gen-of-custom-rules-at-sdc19 [image] [image]

[image] tgauchat: Seriously - I know that can’t help but sound condescending, but I’m genuinely curious. What do you actually hope or expect to achieve here? I often get questions like this from friends of mine on the autism spectrum. (Quite a few are engineers.) “What’s the point?” Is a very genuine question for them. The simplest answer is that for most neurotypical people, venting to a sympathetic audience does provide direct benefits: just being heard helps release some emotion which allows the person’s brain to then self-regularize biochemically and lets them then move on to other things. This has been pretty well studied. [image] 6 Virtues, and 6 Vices, of Venting Check this expert's guide before unloading your frustrations on others. The trick is not to get stuck in continual complaining. (And not to vent in a way that makes the problem worse.) Share the moment, feel better, then move on to actually solving problems again. :sunglasses:

In reference to Apple creating the Appstore in response to customer demand to allow non-Apple developed Apps: [image] aruffell: Customers knew much better than Apple what was the right thing to do. Is this not an example that contradicts your point? I never said that Samsung isn’t considering the needs or desires of their customers; just that I’m quite sure they are already aware of your specific issues (certainly the desire for local rule processing) and may, like Apple, implement applicable solutions if and when it fits their business plans. As a counter-example from Apple (and Samsung), consider the very prominent backlash from consumers and the media regarding the removal of the 1/8" standard headphone jack on their smartphones. Apple ignored it. Samsung initially kept the jack and used it as a competive advantage over iPhone (they had commercials humorously demonstrating the inconvenience of adapter dongles), but have unilaterally removed the jack on the latest models. I’m not saying that customers shouldn’t voice their issues and ideas. I’m saying that we’ve been told many times that this Community is not monitored for issues/requests - the applicable channels are Support and Ratings; and I’m saying that even if all ~10,000 Community members spoke up here, it would still be miniscule compared to the overall customer base and market size, so I do not agree that Topics like this have any significant chance of an impact. You’re welcome to be more optimistic - but I believe you will just face continuing disappointment or maybe even extra frustration because you’re not being heard even as a member of a “large” (not) Community echoing your concerns. Anyhow: The continuing periodic Community “frustration” is sufficient indication that such Topics will continue regardless of any evidence they have any impact on the direction of the product and platform; so obviously it’s ironic and pointless for me to continue to bother to point out this observation. Go ahead and gather some +1’s if you want. Perhaps my negativity will motivate even more folks to support you.

[image] aruffell: My hopes and desires may not be (ie make webCore part of ST platform now that Adrian Caramaliu works for them) and I don’t fault them if they never come true. We are taking slow and deliberate steps to enable developers to do the very thing you are asking for. A lot of us that work at SmartThings are what you could call “power users” too. Plus it’s not just one rule builder like webcore, but we are enabling every developer with the tools and ability to create their own spin a rules engine. [image] SDC19 - Where Now Meets Next! Announcements We are working with customer favorites like webCoRE and SharpTools to build the next generation of custom Rule Builders. Visit our sessions at SDC19 to learn about how our new Rules API moves beyond Groovy SmartApps with faster execution, easier management of Automations, and lays the groundwork for local execution with a future update to the API. Join us in San Jose at #SDC19 for exclusive access to the newest developer resources! Get 50% discounted tickets and on-site gift of Galaxy Buds when registering at http://bit.ly/STSDC2019 with promo code SDC19-SER-ST .

@jody.albritton - This news (I got the email today) was a VERY pleasant surprise. Integration of webCore into the ST platform was in my ‘hopes and dreams’ given Adrian’s hiring but I was not expecting it. If anything, I figured it would have been a simplified version to appeal more to the masses. In your quote I also read: [image] jody.albritton: our new Rules API moves beyond Groovy SmartApps with faster execution, easier management of Automations, and lays the groundwork for local execution with a future update to the API. The promised land… but when will we get there??? :slight_smile: I am glad it is being reconfirmed. Hopefully I’ll still be around to enjoy the fruits of this extended development. Who knows… I received my HE hub this week and am currently planning on what to migrate (anything needing local execution that ST cannot currently do) and how. @jody.albritton - Would you mind confirming whether the promised local execution will be possible when using custom DTHs? The standard DTHs simply do not support any of the extended features many of my devices have so they are far from ideal. If the basic local DTHs remain a requirement, that would be a deal breaker too.

[image] Samsung Developer Conference (SDC) 2019 (October 29-30, 2019) Groups & Events There is some local processing on our hubs. I don’t think anyone is going to argue that we are at 100% local processing, but it’s definitely greater than 0. It’s also a fine line to walk in this community when trying to share information about future directions and plans we have as anything said can be misconstrued as a promise made and then broken. Without making any specific promises on dates of delivery, we are headed towards a more local future. Definitely not away from it.

Thanks @jkp - I knew I wasn’t dreaming things… The post above matches what was my understanding but you end up questioning the veracity when it takes years (or what feels like years - lets not get into a date debate) to get there.

[image] aruffell: Integration of webCore into the ST platform was in my ‘hopes and dreams’ given Adrian’s hiring but I was not expecting it This may be splitting hairs, but it doesn’t sound like they are integrating WebCore into the platform. Webcore is still its own entity that is not maintained by Samsung employees. They are building an API that third party automation creators, like webcore, can use and be supported in the future. The same API can also be used by SharpTools.io, @RBoy, @michaelahess, @krlaframboise, etc. and hopefully they can create the same smart apps with the new API that they did with Groovy Smart Apps.

If the result is a locally executed automation, I guess it really doesn’t matter (to me) how it is achieved… This is probably even better as it opens up options for new alternative tools.

[image] aruffell: Would you mind confirming whether the promised local execution will be possible when using custom DTHs? The standard DTHs simply do not support any of the extended features many of my devices have so they are far from ideal. If the basic local DTHs remain a requirement, that would be a deal breaker too. Not ready to talk about the future of DTH’s today. SDC will be heavily focused on the new rules API and other enhancements. There will be a talk about the new stuff for the hub in general terms. When we do have something ready to share it will be all over the community.

Is this the beginning of the end of my 5 years+ with ST?

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jkp October 18, 2019, 7:50pm 39

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Is this the beginning of the end of my 5 years+ with ST?

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