Extra SHM mode options?

[JDRoberts]

@WB70

FYI: They didn’t do much to separate this confusion moving forward either so the use of the word “Mode” will continue to overlap into Security

Was thinking they would have gone with “Change Security State or Status” in the new.

It will be Security Mode versus Location Mode.

Probably driven by ADT: ADT calls their armed states “modes” even in the classic app.

[WB70]

@JDRoberts

Probably driven by ADT: ADT calls their armed states “modes” even in the classic app.

A continuation of explaining and clarifying for the lifetime of ST. Instead of a written FAQ, should think about video driven for stuff like this

[JDRoberts]

@WB70

@JDRoberts

Probably driven by ADT: ADT calls their armed states “modes” even in the classic app.

A continuation of explaining and clarifying for the lifetime of ST. Instead of a written FAQ, should think about video driven for stuff like this

Both would be good. Many people, myself included, can process text way faster than video, which is particularly helpful when you are going back to something later. And of course many people can’t see video at all. (and an audio track from a video is rarely as useful, although again, choice is good. )

[arnb]

@WB70

In addition to my post above, one more thing to note on SHM JD is that they have renamed the labelling for Armed (Home) to Armed (Stay).

I did not think it was possible for ST to futher muddy the waters on Alarm State and Mode, however they persevered and succeeded.

Getting back to the OP’s original question. Using Zones would be the answer on some alarm systems, however SHM does not support Zones. One possible solution is to create two “Locations” on one hub. I don’t know if anyone has actually succeeded with doing this, but here is a search that brings up some information.
https://community.smartthings.com/search?q=two%20locations%20one%20hub

[JDRoberts]

In SmartThings, a hub is a location. You can’t have just a select group of hub-connected sensors at a different “location” as they would still be reporting to the same hub. The threads in the search you included (all pre-2018) are mostly for people who wanted to have more than one hub under one account, very different use case.

Under the new “SmartThings Samsung Connect” app, Devices which do not require a hub, mostly appliances and televisions, can be set up as a separate location, but again that doesn’t fit the use case for this thread.

[arnb]

Some threads are about two locations with one hub. Yes, all old threads, just some ideas. SHM could really use “Zones”.

Multiple geofences

You could actually do this within ST. It’s fairly complex though. Create a geofence close to the house. Create another location (hub-less) with a larger geofence. Create a cloud to cloud app from outer app to the inner. Put logic in the outer app that sends a present/not present notification to the inner app. Put logic in the inner app that when there is presence in the outer, but not the inner, then do some things. Like I said, until apps from difference locations can talk to each other, this is the way you can do it in ST. You could also use this method to set up picketting for something like it when you are on your way home and want a cascading action list; i.e. leave work: start hot-tub, 10 miles out: turn on AC, 1 mile out: open garage and turn on the lights.

App with two locations (one hub only)

You could use Cloud Interface by Michael Struck.

[JDRoberts]

Yes, but all the ones about two locations and one hub are about Geofencing for presence. Not sensors for intrusion detection. As I mentioned, you can’t split the devices that are connected to a single hub directly (zwave or zigbee) into multiple locations.

[arnb]

IMHO, for the OP to do this easily with ST, a second HUB is needed.

[JDRoberts]

IMHO, for the OP to do this easily with ST, a second HUB is needed.

I would respectfully disagree: That would just give you the same problem in reverse, because there are times when the OP does want all of the sensors to report together.

The use of modes and custom notifications will solve the OP’s use case for many setups, it just depends on the details.

The custom smartapp “smart alarm“ which existed before the official smart home monitor, had zones, for example. And Mike Maxwell’s zone manager can also create zones. And you can also use Mike’s zone manager with SHM custom notifications.

There are several different ways to do this, but a second hub is normally only considered if there’s a range issue in getting devices connected to the original hub, and that’s not the problem here.

[Navat604 (R.)]

You can create virtual motion sensors and sync them with your gym motion sensors. Use the virtual sensors in SHM instead of the real sensor. Put in a restriction for the virtual sensors to sync with the real sensors in all mode except gym mode. Also set a rule to have the virtual sensors go inactive when mode switches to gym.
That’s the only way I think will work if you still want to use SHM.

[arnb]

Hmmm
I already have motion sensors, a simulated sensor, a contact sensor, and an SHM interface on my SHM Delay app’s Delay Profiles. All I need to add is a preference “Ignore motion sensors in these modes” and perhaps a “Ignore contact sensor in these modes” and some logic to test the preferences.

My question: If I add this would anyone use it?

[Mavrrick58 (Mavrrick)]

I think there are a few questions about this setup that still need to be answered. One of which is simply what kind of security setup is he using. Did he/she implement a perimeter based setup or one primarily based on motion.

When you think about alarms normally there is only a need for three states and they have nothing to do with location it is about presence. Your armed/home or armed/stay is used to disable motion sensors and lean on a perimeter based setup for protection. Armed/a way is simply turn on everything for detection for intrusion including motion sensors. Then of course disarmed.

If you think about it simply as presence there is nothing saying armed stay shouldn’t be used regardless of weather the op is in the gym or main home structure. The only problem with it is if there is a concern the home protection is inadequate without the other sensors. If that is the case though I would suggest upgrading the sensors to improve perimeter protection.

Adding a second hub for the gym could be a very reasonable solution as well as. Having it’s own SHM setup could allow for the added flexibility the op wants though it would mean a separate setup to maintain. I would guess that there is a decent chance it would work pretty well without to much hacking to maintain. Some devices that are cloud based can even be seen by two hubs. I had a WEMO plug for instance attached to a ADT Security panel hub and a Nvidia Shield Link hub. It seemed to work fine. That won’t work for Zwave or Zigbee devices, but could work for cloud based stuff

With all that we are talking about smart things and I am sure a way can be figured out to send notifications, it is likely going to be either custom rules in SHM, or notifications completely outside of it.

The easiest solution will likely be to use two hubs each with their own SHM, but I would still argue if you have good perimeter based security simply use armed stay though.

[arnb]

@Mavrrick58

With all that we are talking about smart things and I am sure a way can be figured out to send notifications, it is likely going to be either custom rules in SHM, or notifications completely outside of it.

Although not clearly stated, it seems to me SHM Custom Rules has the ability to setup “Zones” by:

1. Setup a “custom defined mode” the IDE
2. Remove the Zones’ Contact and Motion sensors from SHM Security
3. Add the Contact and Motion sensors to Custom Rules
4. In each Custom Rule → More Options → Only when mode is:
   Check all modes other the “custom defined mode” in the IDE
5. Set notifications and alerts
6. When access to the Zone is desired, set the “custom defined mode”

Will this work, or am I missing something?

[JDRoberts]

Although not clearly stated, it seems to me SHM Custom Rules has the ability to setup “Zones” by:

1. Setup a “custom defined mode” the IDE
2. Remove the Zones’ Contact and Motion sensors from SHM Security
3. Add the Contact and Motion sensors to Custom Rules
4. In each Custom Rule -> More Options --> Only when mode is:
   Check all modes other the “custom defined mode” in the IDE
5. Set notifications and alerts
6. When access to the Zone is desired, set the “custom defined mode”

Will this work, or am I missing something?

That works, but only if you no longer want to use those sensors in the regular (non-custom) SHM alerts.

That becomes important because I believe only the regular alerts will run locally and if you are using the official Scout integration ( which ignores custom alerts).

[arnb]

@JDRoberts

That works, but only if you no longer want to use those sensors in the regular (non-custom) SHM alerts.

That becomes important because I believe only the regular alerts will run locally and if you are using the official Scout integration ( which ignores custom alerts).

In my case it would not appear to matter since everything is already in the cloud, except for Alert with Lights.

From IDE-> Location-> Installed SmartApps.

[Mavrrick58 (Mavrrick)]

I think the reason most of your stuff is cloud based is because they probably use SHM Delay, and that is dependent on that virtual sensor which wouldn’t be a local resource.

We also need to remember it looks like SHM is completely rewritten for the new smartthings app. I don’t even remember seeing a way to setup a custom rule in the new app.

[arnb]

@Mavrrick58

We also need to remember it looks like SHM is completely rewritten for the new smartthings app. I don’t even remember seeing a way to setup a custom rule in the new app.

As much as I want to take a look at the new app, I have not installed it because I’m concerned I will destroy my current setup or screw up my log in, plus I’ve not been informed to change. Is it safe to install both apps?

[Mavrrick58 (Mavrrick)]

Honestly I have heard many people swear up and down you shouldn’t, I think I probably screwed myself up a while agowithout realizing it.

The Samsung connect(new app) comes preloaded on many Samsung phones so I already had it setup and loaded without even realizing it. I also only really started to experiment once smartthings was brought to the Nvidia Shield with the Smartthings link adapter. Now I have jumped head first in with an ADT smartthings panel.

There are some very noticeable gaps with the new app. They are very obvious if you are use to loading custom stuff through the IDE. It does appear though that they are making good progress. Just a few days ago all of my ADT sensors starting reporting properly through the new app.

If you didn’t do it by accident I wouldn’t do it. It can be little quirky. If you do try it do as little changes in the new app as possible.

[arnb]

I’m hoping for a very slow implementation of Samsung Connect. Play Store states:
“This app is incompatible with all of your devices.”

[joelw135 (Joel W)]

I’m hoping for a very slow implementation of Samsung Connect. Play Store states:

“This app is incompatible with all of your devices.”

This whole thing has me concerned. What will work, and what will not? I have a hunch lots will not. ST says no everything will work for at least the near future. But ST seems to be in a rush to implement this.