Greetings! First post here, so lets see how it goes…
I bought four of the Juno Wafer Connect 6 in Canless Lights for $20/each at Lowes – marked down from $35. A relative is upgrading four (not smart) incadescent can lights in his basement and was not really looking for a Smart solution, but opted for these lights given the price.
Currently there are only two wires plus a ground in the switch gang. I could run another pair, but would prefer not to. The homeowner has an Alexa, but not the
What dimmer switch would you recommend – perhaps a recommendation for a non-smart switch and also a Smart switch?
These LED lights can be dimmed with only two wires, correct? I have not installed Smart devices before – do I need an additional ZWave Compatible Smart Hub for these to dim? I dont think the homeowner will want to purchase a Smart Hub just for these lights.
Couple of things to unpack there, but the first thing is that you can’t use a regular dimmer switch, either dumb or smart, with a dimmable smart bulb or a smart LED controller like the Juno uses. Smart lighting expects to dim itself when it receives a radio frequency command. Regular dimmers work by reducing the current sent to the bulb. These two things will conflict with each other and you can end up burning out the bulbs or the switch or both. If you check with support for the Juno lights you will see they tell you not to use a dimmer switch.
Acuity has advised that these lights while dimmable and tunable will not work with any wall dimmer.
Fortunately, there is a solution. There are a number of models of smart switches which are specifically designed to work with smart lighting. Instead of changing the current sent to The controller, they are wired so that the controller is always on current, and the smart switch sends a radio frequency command either to a Home Automation hub or to the lighting controller itself to tell it to change the dim level or color temperature.
Which one of these wall devices you select depends on the exact Home Automation system that you are using. And also whether the Juno lights you bought are using Bluetooth or Zigbee. (Juno devices do not use Z wave, so you don’t need to worry about that protocol. )
So it’s doable, but there is some additional research required.
most smart LED drivers, including this one, require a neutral wire. That’s what provides power to the radio so that it can hear the next “on” command even when the lights look like they are off. See the installation guide for this model: it requires a neutral wire.
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Anyway, I know that’s a lot to unpack. Some Alexa devices do have a limited feature Zigbee hub built into them, but to be honest, I don’t know if that will work with the Juno devices or not. You might need a separate full featured hub to make them work anyway. (They’ll still be able to operate with voice commands from Alexa, we’re just talking about a layer further down in the “plumbing.”)
So… do you want to continue with this project or not? It sounds like it’s quite a bit more complicated than you were expecting, particularly with the requirement for the neutral wire. So another option might be just to return these and get regular dumb replacement lights. Just let us know if you want to go into more details.
Thank you for the very informative post. I will need to read it a few more times in order to absorb everything.
Is it possible with the right dimmer switch to communicate wirelessly directly with the lights?
If I do run another wire to the switch, what type of wire would you suggest running? There is no need ever for a second switch, so 3 way wire is out of the question.
Definitely, but it depends on the exact model of the lights and the home automation platform you choose. You will have two options in most cases, either a battery powered switch that doesn’t need to be wired at all or a Mains powered switch with a “smart light mode.“
Are these model number WF6C?
If I do run another wire to the switch, what type of wire would you suggest running?
I don’t personally make wiring recommendations over the Internet. Too many variables that you have to see in person.
Yes. What this is the track I want to explore to see if it is cost or tech prohibitive.
I looked at the Eaton Z-Wave Smart Universal Dimmer Switches (around $40 at Lowes), but I could not get an explicit answer on whether and how they might work with the aforementioned lights… There was a model that only had two wires and didn’t appear to require a third, but again it was very unclear whether a proprietary Smart Hub is needed.
Those would need a zwave hub. Z wave is an independent third-party standard, there are many smart hubs that can work with it. But your Juno lights are Zigbee. so this actually becomes easier if we stay with Zigbee.
Also: first rule of Home Automation: “the model number matters.” Not the name, so just get used to giving specific model numbers if you’re taking this project forward.
As far as “didn’t appear to“ require something, once you have the model number, you can look up the user manual, and get whatever information you need.
Assuming what you saw was the Eaton RF9640, that doesn’t need a traveler wire, but it does need a neutral wire, so it’s not going to work in your setup anyway.
I’m tired now, so I’ll let other people continue this conversation.
The switch I was considering was specifically “Eaton Model RF9642-ZDW” – I also looked at other models of the Eaton Smart switches but they required a neutral or even two neutrals (red/blue … I believe sometimes called a traveler.)\
Apparently, I have conflated Z-Wave and Zigbee…
So would a good solution for me be the Enbrighten Smart Toggle Switch with Quickfit and SimpleWire Model #43076 or 43080 – the latter saying it works with Dimmable LEDs? Would I also be able to control the temperature of the lights from the switch? (Again this is with a 2 wire solution)
Separately, I have had to trace almost all the wiring in the basement. I would like to leave a diagram of what I did as well as the circuits I tied into. Do you know of a lightweight drawing schematic software, or maybe something which could be easily printed then drawn over?
Neutral and traveler are 2 different things. And two different wires. The traveler is used to connect one switch to a different switch so that you can set up a “three-way” where two different switches Control the same light fixture.
The Eaton RF9642 is an accessory switch, not a Master switch.
It is a Z wave device
It requires a Z wave hub
It also requires a Z wave master switch
And it needs a neutral wire.
Given the challenges you’ve had understanding the technical details about these devices (and it can definitely get confusing) I feel at this point the best advice would be to bring in an electrician. Or perhaps better just to return the Juno lights and get regular dumb lights.
Incorrectly wiring devices of this type doesn’t just mean the automations won’t work: it can mean burning down the house, and since this isn’t even your own house… I’d bring in an expert.
JMO, of course.
If you do want to continue, many Home Depots offer a free course on how to install dumb light switches. That will teach you the tools, terminology, and basic methods involved in wiring a standard light switch. When you’ve learned that, it will be much easier to understand what’s going on with smart devices.
oh, we should also note that there are at least eight different ways to wire a three-way circuit, and not all of them work with smart lights. And in addition, in most places in the United States, most wire color is not mandated, so people can, and do, use any color for any purpose. For this reason, you can’t rely on wire color alone to tell you what’s going on in any given switchbox: you have to use voltage measuring tools to be sure.
