Devices we don't have

  • Uk compatible doorbell
  • affordable speaker for notifications ($50-ish)
  • external motion sensor

:smiley:

edit: @JDRoberts correctly pointed out that Aeon doesn’t recommend using the Gen5 MultiSensor as an outdoor motion sensor. Due to the way that PIR sensors work they’re inherently poor at detecting motion in outdoor environments. If you were to use it you might see lots of false positives. If you have an outdoor area that’s sectioned off you may find some use in it, but otherwise we can’t recommend any outdoor motion sensors at this time.

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Hi @Tyler, do you anticipate any updates on whether we’ll have official support for the centralite keypad (or any other) in the near future? It’s been about a year since you mentioned this was in progress (in another thread). Thanks.

I’ve seen that smartapp, thanks. I can use the keypad to arm/disarm SHM, it has a functioning device handler. But ST staff have said in the past they won’t roll out delayed arming of SHM until there’s an officially supported keypad.

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Oh. Got it.

I wouldn’t put too much weight on that. Regardless of broken promises in the past, this particular precedent doesn’t even matter all that much, and are completely separate development teams.

If the SHM team is deferring entry/exit grace delays due to lack of hardware, that’s just a convenient excuse. There’s absolutely no reason to believe if will suddenly increase in priority and resources after hardware is available.

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It’s pretty clear at this point it’s not a priority at all. But since they’ve made public statements in the past implying it could eventually happen, and since @Tyler engages with community members re: device certification from time to time, it seemed like it was worth a shot to ask. I will not be holding my breath until that response comes, however.

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Yeah, I can provide an update, but it’s more like a non-update.

We’ve made no progress on integrating a security keypad. There is not any ongoing work to make this happen, and it’s not present on any current prioritization list.

We’ve also made no progress in adding entry/exit delays to Smart Home Monitor. There is no ongoing work slated to make this happen, and it’s not present on any current prioritization list.

To be clear, there is no “Smart Home Monitor” team. We have a [pretty small] Works With SmartThings Engineering team that works across all solutions (Devices, SmartApps, partner integrations, submission review, general bug fixes, Samsung Connect, OCF, etc.). Smart Home Monitor hasn’t been changed since the beginning of the year.

I’m currently traveling, but will bring this up again with the team when I return to the office.

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Thanks so much for the update, although that’s pretty disappointing to hear. Delayed arming and disarming of SHM has been a very common feature request since SHM was released two years ago, and for good reason IMO. It’s hard to understand why ST isn’t interested in adding this functionality.

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There are two community discussion threads on outdoor motion sensors which are worth looking at.

The first one is pretty short and basically just suggests putting a tube over the lens of a PIR motion sensor, any of them including the Aeon which at least does have a weatherproof case, which can reduce some of the false alarms just because you narrow the detection field. But it obviously won’t work for all use cases. It’s most useful for use cases that involve small detection areas, like wanting the front lights to come on as you approach the front door. Not so useful if you want a security warning over a larger area.

The second is a long detailed discussion about the issues involved in using outdoor motion sensors and what some of the options are. There is some good information there, including suggestions from some of our UK members, but the short answer is to choose a device which is designed for outdoor sensing and then Wire it to something like the Aeotec Dry contact sensor (available in both the US and the UK) to have the reports sent to SmartThings. The thread discusses several different types of devices and different wiring methods, as well as the use of @Mike_Maxwell 's zone manager smartapp to combine several sensors into one zone. So different people will find different parts of thread helpful depending on the details of what you are trying to accomplish.

Still another option is to take advantage of motion sensors built into more expensive devices like the ring doorbell that @tyler mentioned or some of the outdoor cameras. These use a different technology than the simple PIR sensors and consequently have fewer false alerts outdoors. This option won’t work for everyone, but some people will find it useful. :sunglasses:

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I really don’t understand why there isn’t a simple outdoors motion sensor… Settled on using Blink XTs for Back Door and Garage and Ring Pro for Front Door. However, these solutions are on the “costly” side.

Physics. :wink:

Cheap “motion” sensors are really PIR sensors, and that technology just doesn’t work really well outdoors.

There’s a detailed discussion of this along with alternatives in the community FAQ:

But the short answer is that a reliable one cannot be made at the price point that people using DIY solutions typically want.

Your solution of using cameras with built in motion sensors is really the most cost-effective one for reliability right now. :sunglasses:

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Tyler,

Thanks for the response, although not exactly what most folks want to hear.

Since SHM is not a priority for the ST Engineering Team, why not Open Source the code so the community can take a crack at adding the entry/exit delays?

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While I’m not answering for Tyler or in any official capacity, I believe that a significant reason is that the code for SHM includes various internal (ie, unpublished) APIs or Methods not available or hidden from Community Developers.

For example, SHM:

  1. Is a Dashboard Solution SmartApp (ie, appears oj the front-page of the SmartThings App).

  2. Can post special notifications that have reminders and need to be “dismissed” by the user: A function that ActionTiles Customers would love if we could access / integrate.

  3. Can share notifications with specific monitoring Partners like Scout (previously announced “ADT Canopy” integration appears to have been abandoned or on hold).

  4. Can automatically select “all” Things of a particular Capability (e.g., All Smoke Detectors, All Motion Sensors…).

Of course, all of the above APIs would be beneficial to Community Developers for various SmartApps (including CoRE), … But SmartThings knows this already.

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How well does your Blink XT’s PIR sensor work for you outdoors? I’m running into sensitivity issues with mine (ie it’s too sensitive) and there’s a pretty active topic in the Blink community forum on this since it seems to be a widespread problem.

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Although I likes your comment, I dislike the answer! :rofl:

Seems crazy that you can buy a dusk to dawn outdoors spot light with motion sensing for $10 at the LHS but…

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Not arguing with you JD as you are an engineer and I’m not. But I was going over this in my head again recently as one of my non-smart outdoor motion sensor floods went pear-shaped. I need to replace it and of course I went over the option in my head of installing a regular floodlight fixture and controlling it with a smart switch but then deciding not to as other than this single failure in the fixture they have held up very well in our extreme climate and I don’t have to deal with devices dropping off the mesh that are relied on for security and safety.

But the main thing that came to mind is I just spent ~$30 to replace the entire non-smart, outdoor motion sensor fixture. So, why can’t z-wave or zigbee tech be added to what is obviously a generally reliable outdoor motion sensor module that is not expensive to start with?

And sorry, I’m tired and completely glossed over Ron’s post before I replied which basically asked the same question as me, just more succinctly.

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Two reasons.

First, the inexpensive nonnetworked motion sensor lights generally have the sensitivity shifted way down below what people want for a typical standalone sensor. Map the detection zone. It’s not at all uncommon for these to only work well from one direction and only up to about 2 1/2 to 3 m. Some even less. When you walk past path lights of this type, you may have to put them about 4 feet apart in order to get a continuous light path as the ones ahead won’t trigger until you’re almost right up on them. People are used to that for path lights but for standalone sensors it’s typical that people want a 5 to 7 m detection range and then you open it up to a lot more false triggers.

Second, the answer is that the cheap ones do have the same kinds of errors. Lots of them. All of the companies write regular blog posts about this issue.

http://www.mrbeams.com/blog/best-practices-for-pir-motion-sensors-in-mr-beams-led-lighting-products/

The difference is a lot of people never notice the false triggers. :new_moon_with_face: Your driveway light comes on for 45 seconds late at night, even if you do you notice you probably just assumed that a person or animal was walking past.

Again, it’s typical that once people network these they pay a lot more attention to the individual events. Maybe not. If you’re just operating exactly the same kind of driveway light. But here’s the thing – – the network light also has to operate its radio each time. And that chews up battery life way more than the nonnetworked lights. So the false triggers in a networked sensor mean you’re running through a lot of battery. Companies don’t want those complaints.

So… if you had two identical battery operated motion sensor lights, PIR technology, one with a radio and one without…

A) if they were spec’d like a typical nonnetworked light, you would have a very short detection zone and you would still have some false triggers. And the networked device would eat your battery life much faster than the non-networked one.

B) if they were spec’d like a typical networked security sensor, you’d have the bigger detection zone, but both devices would have a bunch of false triggers.

You can try it. Add a dry contact device with a radio to an existing nonnetworked sensor device. If you check the outdoor motion sensor FAQ you’ll see that there are quite a few people who have tried that. If you have fewer false triggers, it’s because the sensitivity is lower, which will work for some use cases but not others. But you’re still going to have some false triggers. :sunglasses:

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Dog door. Or pet door if you want to be PC about it. Iris has a dog door. It is especially “dog” or potbelly pig? because it’s huge or at lease medium sized. I’m building a frame for our sliding glass door and really want to install a smart dog door. The Iris one is really cool too. It is the ONLY device I cannot yet use with Smartthings that I envy. I would even consider an Iris hub just for the door but it’s too big for my Klee Kei anyway. Still though I see it in our future.