Corded devices to ST (Finland)

Hi,

I would like to ask if you guys know a solution that could act as a hub for Zigbee/Z-wave devices as well as devices hooked up with a basic low voltage cords? Or possibly a ‘router’ of sorts that can be used to hook light switch cords to, and it would pass the switch/dimmer commands onwards to ST hub.

(By the way, I find it impossible to write a post on an mobile browser because the floating header floats on top of the title field.)

I’m a little confused by what you’re asking, since I’m not quite sure what you mean by “router” in this context… So I’m just guessing here, and if I’m wrong let me know, but are you asking if there’s a way to control Low-voltage light strips, such as 24 V LED strips, with Z wave or zigbee so that they could be added to a SmartThings system?

If so, then yes, Fibaro makes a zwave controller for 12 to 24 V strips which works well and is quite popular in the community. People also use it with things like sprinkler zone controllers. It is available on both the US and UK zwave frequency.

The other alternative is just to use a transformer in between the strips and a higher power source. That’s a popular method as well.

Are you looking to turn multiple low voltage devices on and off? If so both ST_Anything and Konnected can do that with the properly rated relays attached. If that’s not what you mean can you describe your use case a little better?

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Thanks everyone for your assistance!

I must admit that my use cases were a bit vague on the first post.

What I’m after is as follows:

  1. ST, or a ST and an additional hub which would be operable through SmartThings
  2. The system would control groups of dimmable LED downlights separately, the downlights could be straight 230V
  3. It would allow me to plug in arbitrary ZigBee devices, like temp sensors, wired switches/dimmers, roller blind motors, and some 10A and 16A power sockets

And to clarify some of these targets:
2. I think I could wire the downlights as 230V from my utility room with the circuit breaker box, so that there’s a breaker box DIN component such as FNIP-8x10A or a DALI equivalent (?) if those are supported by ST?
3. I would love to have the Philips Tap switch attached if Green Power is supported by ST?
3. I would also love to buy sensors from Xiaomi/Aqara as they seem to be at a very competitive price point

The components should to be operable in Finland/EU and shippable here, but wont have to be retailed here. You may disregard this question altogether for it’s a tough one.

Oh and the low voltage stuff I mentioned. What I mean by that is if I could wire a low voltage cord from the utility room to wall switches, and connect the switches to ST (or some ST sidekick) using the low voltage cable and control the lights with that. This I thought would add reliability and ABB’s free@home and KNX seem to use this kind of wiring for control units if I’m correct.

I don’t think there is any system which would allow you to plug-in “arbitrary” zigbee devices, because the zigbee standard allows for multiple different “profiles,” and not all profiles are interoperable. In fact some profiles belong to a single manufacturer and are not shared with others.

SmartThings uses the Zigbee Home Automation (ZHA) profile, and can also work with some ZLL profile Devices.

It does not support the Zigbee Green Power profile.

The official SmartThings/Hue integration only works with hue bulbs and light strips attached to a Hue bridge. Not with the tap switch or dimmer switch or motion sensor.

There is one community member who has developed some code to allow other devices which are connected to the hue bridge, specifically including the Phillips Tap, to also be used with SmartThings when they are connected to the hue bridge, but set up is more complicated than with ZHA Devices and it’s still somewhat experimental.

As far as the Xiaomi Devices, they appear to be quite well engineered and are very inexpensive, but they are designed to work with their own Gateway and have not been certified to other zigbee profiles. There are some community members using them with SmartThings, but they can be quite difficult to pair initially and after that there can also be some problems. :disappointed_relieved:

In particular, because they are not certified, it has sometimes happened that SmartThings will make a change to the cloud and then the xiaomi devices will all stop working for a while. So if you buy them you run the risk that they might just stop working some day. You can talk to people who are using them with SmartThings in the following thread:

I’m afraid I am still confused about the wiring questions, and in particular how this would meet safety codes, so I will leave that to other people to discuss.

There are some DIN mountable Lighting Control Devices, particularly some European frequency Z wave ones from Qubino, which are compatible with SmartThings, but again I don’t quite understand The set up you are proposing so I am not sure if they would work for you or not.

For example, if you are using the DIN mountable Device it controls everything on that circuit branch together as one unit, you no longer have individual controls of each lamp, and it sounded like that was one of the things you were trying to accomplish

http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-qubino-din-dimmer-gen5

Sylvania/Osram makes some individual downlights which work well with SmartThings and allow you to dim either an individual lamp or group them together in any combination that you like, so they are quite popular for large rooms where everything is wired to a single switch but you want to create zone lighting. But these are just regular 230 V downlights, they aren’t part of a low-voltage system. Again, I am not sure if they would meet your needs.

One last thought…

In English, “corded” usually means a wire which is wrapped in insulation and intended to be used from a device to a wall socket, like this:

IMG_4387

It does not mean the wires that run inside the wall for mains-powered lighting which is permanently connected to the home’s electrical system.

From your other posts, I have a feeling that you meant “wired” rather than “corded.” But I am still not quite sure.

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Also, if by chance I have guessed correctly and you meant “wired” rather than “corded,” then re-reading your first post I wonder if you were asking something similar to the following question. I’m feeling quite tired right now and may not be on much for the rest of the day so I’m going to go ahead and answer that. If this is totally off topic to what you were asking, please forgive me.

If you were asking if you need to do special wiring in order to set up a SmartThings system, most people find that they do not.

I think it’s obvious that there will be many battery operated devices that can communicate with a smartthings hub.

In addition, if we look at a typical wired device like a ceiling light with a wall switch there are three separate ways to add devices which can allow that Light to communicate with a smartthings hub.

(by the way, if you ask questions on any other threads in the forum, make sure that you specify that you are in Europe, as the device selection is quite different from the US.)

In all these cases, the device will communicate with the SmartThings hub and the SmartThings hub will communicate with any other devices that it controls, so unlike some other systems you can mix-and-match devices from any protocol that smartthings supports.

That is, every wall switch that works with SmartThings can be used to control every light bulb that works with SmartThings. And every sensor that works with SmartThings can be used to trigger every wall switch or sensor that works with SmartThings. :sunglasses:

This is one of the best features of the SmartThings platform. As long as an individual device will work with SmartThings, you can then set it up with rules to interact with any of the other devices on your SmartThings account.

Now back to the three ways in which we might set up SmartThings to control a light on the ceiling.

  1. First, you can simply use a smartbulb. These come in many different formats these days, including the downlights that I linked to in a previous post.

Anything which connects to a Philips hue bridge, including some of the IKEA lightbulbs, can then be used with SmartThings. There are a number of different brands that can work in this way.

In addition, some bulbs can talk to SmartThings without needing an additional bridge device. This would include LIFX and Sengled, among others available in the UK.

When you use a smartbulb, you just replace the old bulb with the new, so this is the simplest option.

By the way, if you want a battery operated wall switch, something similar to the hue tap, to work with your smartbulbs, there are several choices in Europe that will work with SmartThings. See the following thread (this is a clickable link)

  1. Second, you may be able to replace the wall switch with a wall switch that can communicate with SmartThings. This is often more challenging in Europe than in the US because almost all mains-powered wall switches that work with SmartThings will require that there be a neutral wire at the switchbox, and many homes in Europe do not have this.

But if your home does have neutral wires at the switch boxes, there are some choices that work with 230 V current. You won’t have to replace all the wires in between the switch and the ceiling fitting. You just have to replace the switch itself.

Vesternet has a good selection of smart switches, but only the ones which use zwave or zwave plus Will work directly with SmartThings.

They also have a very good article describing typical UK wiring that might make this clearer.

IMG_4394

  1. if you don’t want to use smartbulbs and you don’t have neutral wires at your light switch boxes, you can still add smartthings control of a ceiling light without having to rewire everything. You do this by using an in wall micro, typically installed in the Ceiling rose.

These are quite small, typically about a centimeter square, and are spliced into the wiring. There are several brands available in Europe. I think the most popular in the community is probably Fibaro, but Aeotec, Qubino, and a couple of other brands are also used by many community members.

there are several different types of days. Some are dimmers. Some can be installed on DIN rails. Some can handle two branches of the wiring.

IMG_4392IMG_4390

Some of the micros, specifically the Fibaro, can even be used without a neutral wire in some circumstances, so you may be able to put them behind the light switch rather than at the ceiling rose. :sunglasses::level_slider::bulb:

If you have any questions about any specific micros there are a number of European community members who have a lot of experience with them. @anon36505037 , for example, has done his whole house with Fibaro modules.

So those are three different ways that you can add smartthings control to a ceiling light without having to add new wires. Again, I’m just guessing that that might be relevant to your first post, if it’s not, my apologies for going off on such a long tangent.

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Wow, that was extensive! Sorry for talking about corded, when what I meant was wired.

Those three ways of getting connected is very useful to know, thanks!

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