Can Hue Motion Sensor work with ST without custom DTH?

Thinking this was not the intent from Philips. For the fact that Philips lists both the Multipurpose and Motion sensor in their Works with SmartThings section, why would Philips then release their own Motion Sensor to only be supported within the Hue Bridge. That limits the functionality of the Motion sensor to work within the realm of Hue lights on the Bridge. A wasted product in a sense limited to hue bulbs and bulbs alone.

The Works with SmartThings compatible devices list every other type of Hue bulb, lamp or strip (exception: gu and par).

The protocols for both the bulbs and motion sensor are zll. Within SmartThings why would they be treated differently? Because of capabilities?

It’s not a big deal. I just find it bizarre that out of all my devices, this is the only one that cannot be paired simultaneously between it’s parent and SmartThings at the same time and isn’t supported by either, if you do choose one route over the other. Makes things that much more difficult for the average consumer and that much more complex when they are building their little infrastructure of things and then come across something like this. It makes it so much more difficult for individuals (no tech) to navigate these waters. Again, thanks for the info. As much as I am technical as a software developer in another industry (30 years IT), the realm of protocols and such within this world isn’t my forte and these types of things, as small as this might be, add up across the board to convolute what you can and cannot do, things you would expect to otherwise work that don’t, and make it a nightmare for the DIYer, lol. Where we are in the Smart Home space, I almost think there should be a rating system (degree of knowledge and average time investment N1 - N5 / Novice and xx # of minutes to E1 - E5), just like they have for television programming so that the consumer knows exactly what they are getting
themselves into ahead of time and what is expected. It really is targeted at the hobbiest or tinkerer that has the time, patience and knowledge to venture into this space. I know that’s all easier said than done and this space will eventually open to consumers just being able to plug and play and go. I know you know what I mean or am trying to say.

Thanks again for your take.

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For the fact that Philips lists both the Multipurpose and Motion sensor in their Works with SmartThings section,

Do you have a link for this?

As far as the profiles, the SmartThings hub uses the ZHA profile, not ZLL. ZLL devices are supposed to be able to fall back to using a ZHA profile if they are connected to a ZHA coordinator, and that does happen. The issue isn’t the profile, it’s the channel. (I told you this stuff gets technical. :scream: )

The motion sensor isn’t unique in this regard. None of the “smart control” devices that you can use with the hue bridge can be simultaneously used with SmartThings. That includes the hue dimmer switch, the tap, and the motion sensor. So this isn’t a new issue with the motion sensor – – it’s been true from the beginning since the tap existed before the SmartThings/Hue integration did. The hue bridge doesn’t report “smart control” events to SmartThings.

I have both of these as well and treat these two as a one off device versus the capability of the motion sensor. I look at the dimmer and tap as remote controls specific to the Hue bulbs and don’t expect them to work across the board.

http://www2.meethue.com/en-us/friends-of-hue/samsung-smartthings/

OK, I looked at that page. That’s saying that the Samsung-branded sensors can be used to trigger hue events. Which is true, because those sensor events are reported to the SmartThings hub which then makes a request of the Phillips hue bridge.

When implemented as currently designed, the Phillips hue motion sensor reports to the hue bridge, but, as I said, Hue does not report its “smart control” device events in the other direction.

A lot of people would like to see the dimmer switch able to be used as a button controller with SmartThings while still being connected to the hue bridge, but Philips has not made that possible. Maybe some day.

Ya I didn’t mean that to be confusing. My point around that was why in the world would Philips create a Motion Sensor not intended to be used outside of the Hue Bridge with the fact that ST compliments the control of Hue bulbs via their Motion Sensors. It was just my observation of why create something where it’s limited in that scope. But that being said, the dimmer and tap are in the same boat so I guess it’s consistent.

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Hi I just wanted to clear up a few things about using the hue Motion sensor with the device handler on ST. First I have used it this way since I bought my hue Motion sensor more than 6 months ago and it works perfectly, I would say it works better than the st Motion sensors no matter which generation, I have them all. One st Motion sensor won’t reconnect because the reset button is broken. I have another one with a problem with the battery not making a constant connection. And the other one just falls off the network all the time. I have never had a problem with the hue Motion sensor on ST. The battery lasts at least twice as long as the ST Motion sensors. And to clarify I have reset my system and put the hue Motion back on the hue hub with no problem at all. I didn’t like using it that way so I put it back on ST again. Did not need anything special just reset it and put it back on ST using the IDE. For me hue lights on the hue hub linked to ST and the hue Motion sensor linked directly to ST are the most consistent and reliable.

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I’m glad it’s working so well for you. :sunglasses:

You make a good point about moving it back-and-forth. Depending on the channel that your smartthings hub is using, this could be easy with a Hue bulb or it could be hard with a Hue Bulb, but that’s because the bulbs don’t have any way of resetting themselves without receiving a command.

Since you can reset the hue motion sensor without a bridge command, it makes sense that you could move it back-and-forth regardless of the hub’s zigbee channel.

So thanks for that reminder, it is an important distinction between the sensor and the bulb. I have noted it in my post above.

Thanks for the concise description JD.
Do you have a reference which describes the available ZLL channels?
I have looked at 802.15.4 reference articles from NXP etc. but can’t find that detail. I’d be prepared to ‘risk’ connecting a Hue bulb if I was sure my smartthings was using a ZLL compatible channel. The zigbee channel is displayed under the HUB screen of the api.smartthings dev site.
https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/hub/show

Thanks in advance.

The ZLL channels are 11, 15, 20, 25. These are the same ones listed under “Change the zigbee channel” in the Philips Hue app. :sunglasses::bulb:

Remember that the risk you run isn’t just that you can’t reset the bulb again.

The primary risk is that you will screw up your zigbee mesh since these bulbs are unreliable repeaters when connected without their Bridge, so they may lose messages from other devices, such as sensors. :scream:

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Is this still the case with Hues motion sensors. They have new ones now that are integrated with Alexa also. Just wondered if ST and Phillips have learned to play nicely together with these motion sensors?

The Philips Hue Motion sensor now has a new box, but as far as I know it’s still the same device. It still officially requires the Hue Bridge, and all references to works with Alexa really means the bridge works with Alexa to control the lights—the motion sensor itself remains invisible to Alexa. For example, you can use Apple HomeKit to have the Hue motion sensor trigger a nonHue device like a Lutron Caseta Switch, but Alexa can’t do anything with it even if you have the Echo Plus model. And the motion sensor doesn’t show up in the list of smart home devices in the Alexa app.

Do you have a link describing the new Alexa capabilities you’re referring to?

Thanks for the info. I guess I will look at other motion sensors. I have some of the Iris motion sensors but a couple of them are quite flaky so I want to replace them. I also have a couple of the zooz 4-in-1 sensors but the DTH has problems with an accurate battery display. I am wondering if there are any others that are small and reliable.

We’re introducing a small and quick Z-Wave Motion Sensor from Zooz, it will be a part of our 4th of July promo and the first week it’s going to be priced at under $20, you’ll be able to to order it starting tomorrow (6/29):

That may be a good option. While it has a dedicated handler to access advanced settings, it will also work with a default motion sensor device type on SmartThings.

I will definitely look at this as I have a couple of the zooz 4-in1 and I generally like them except the DTH has trouble with the correct battery reading. These look very interesting and a good price.

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I have two of these sensors and they are absolute garbage. They detect motion “when they want to”. If you want to configure them correctly you have to use a custom DTH which makes them cloud based. If you pair them directly as ZigBee motion sensors, configuring them is a nightmare.

The only interesting thing about them is they have a micro USB port which can power them and turn them into repeaters. Other than that I would recommend staying as far away as possible from these sensors.

On a side note, the new SmartThings motion sensors are a dream. They detect motion flawlessly, and with the new mount you have tons of options on how you to mount and aim them. On top of that, they are now some of the cheapest sensors you can buy.

Hi Mike, we’re sorry to hear about the issues you experienced! You can switch between the handler and the built-in handler but it can’t be a ZigBee sensor because it’s actually a Z-Wave device. So once you adjust all of the settings, you can change the device type to the Z-Wave Plus Motion Sensor and it will go back to running locally. If you’re having problems with reliable detection, please get in touch with our support and we’ll be happy to troubleshoot it for you and find a solution quickly: https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/pages/contact-us

That was a typo on my part. Yes they are in fact Z-Wave. As for configuring them with the custom DTH, and then moving them back to a Z-Wave plus sensor? No dice. They revert right back to factory settings. I gave up on them 3 months ago. The only reason I still have them is because I missed the return window with Amazon.

They have been relegated to non-essential duties now (my walk-in closet). When the batteries die, that’s it for them, as I am not wasting money on cr123 batteries for them.

I love the form factor, and the mounting options along with the usb power. I really, really wanted to love them, but they are simply just too unreliable to depend on. It is possible mine came from a bad batch I suppose, but I have already replaced them with SmartThings motions sensors which work 100% of the time.

Feel free to try them, as the price is great, but be warned your mileage will likely vary from what they promise.

It is very interesting that Apple Home Kit see Philips Hue motion sensor which is connected on my HUE bridge, I can read lux, temperature and motion trough Home kit. It is a crap then ST cannot see it… Also I can see trough Apple Home Kit HUE switch.

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Jan 2021 My hue motion sensor does now show up in Alexa. I have the Hue skill enabled. I have created a routine in Alexa that when motion is detected through the porch windows and porch doorway then Alexa announces that “there is someone at the porch door” and then displays my Tapo Camera feed to the Echo Show. (The camera bit is slow to connect) but the main feature you wanted with motion sensor activity from Hue bridge in Alexa is now a feature.
I came here looking to see whether to buy a Smarthome hub so that I may do ITTT integrations based on hue sensors. Thanks following the above conversations I shall try resetting the sensor outside of Hue bridge and connect via SmartThings to investigate. Cheers.

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I have multiple Hue Motion Sensors and have simply configured them to run is SmartThings using the available community DTH. Work perfectly and reliably. All functions present, but of course they are no longer visible to Hue.