4 way switch wiring - Power from light fixture to light switch setup

Long time lurker, need a bit of guidance on wiring for a 4 way switch setup. Can I put in smart switches given my wiring setup? If the switches I have won’t work are there ones that will? I searched the forums and did plenty of reading but couldn’t find a clear answer. Thanks

I have a 4 way switch setup that appears to be wired like this:

I have (1) GE 12722 paddle switch and (2) GE 12733 add-on switches I’d like to put in.

The setup is in a stairwell and 2nd floor hallway. Three wall switches:

Switch #1 - Bottom of stairs, standard 3 way switch
(didnt have time to get a pic but can get one tonight if needed)

Switch #2 - Top of stairs, standard 3 way switch

Switch #3 - Far end of hallway, 4 way switch w/ hot wires (black) pigtailed in box

Fixture #1 - Bottom of stairs
Fixture #2 - Hallway way, 2nd floor

You unfortunately do not have a neutral wire based on that wiring diagram. What you can do however is install a relay in the light fixture. By doing that the light can be remotely controlled and your existing switches will still work.

Im not sure about the GE switches but, with your wiring layout, this could all be done using just one Fibaro Dimmer 2 micro module and 3nr (dumb) momentary switches.

No need for complicated add on’s / virtual switch setups.

Would I need one relay or two given that I have two fixtures? One of the light fixtures is a recessed light so getting a relay in there might be tough.

I like the idea of leaving my existing switches and adding a relay. Could I add the relay in behind one of my switches? This is just an on/off, is there a non-dimming relay that would work w/ SmartThings?

Take note, the diagram shows "momentary " switches as the wall switches not standard switches. It can probably be wired with standard switches just a different setup.

Based on the pictures of my actual switches does the wiring diagram appear to be right?

Two things that don’t look right to me is that Switch #2 has a white wire where I would expect to see a red (traveler) wire. Also I don’t know how you would wire two light fixtures into this setup. I have two lights controlled by this 4 way setup.

Thanks again.

In regards to having two light fixtures, they are on the same switched circuit so are most likely wired in parallel.

One fixture will be the master (most wires), the other will just have 2 wires + earth (ground).

If you go for a relay in the fitting it will only need to go in the master fitting… other fitting(s) will toggle with the master.

The Fibaro module I recommended above does not require a neutral, and works best fitted behind switch 1 (LHS on your diagram) connecting as follows:

  • white goes to ‘L’ (Live / Hot) on the module
  • black goes to ‘arrow wave’ (Load) symbol on the module

In your case with no neutral at the switch, you would put a small loop between the ‘N’ and ‘Sx’ terminals.

You just then need to use two of the traveler wire cores to connect Sx and S1 to switches 2 & 3 as shown in the Fibaro diagram.

You will need to changeover to momentary switches though, but will get full dimmer control + double press scene ID’s sent to the hub for triggering other things.

You will end up with a spare traveler wire between each of the 3 switches so you could also take advantage of the S2 terminal on the module. This would give you an extra scene control switch at each of the 3 locations (double paddle single gang momentary switches required)

The second paddle can be pressed once, twice, thrice or held to trigger 4 different actions.

Edit: the above image shows (I think) toggle switches but I understand that similar units exist in the US with momentary paddles. Being in the UK, Google just shows me UK results so it’s hard for me to find a specific example.

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