Smart locks for the knob, not the deadbolt?

@jelockwood
Thanks for all the replies. I’ve looked at the solutions and I am not so much impressed. I like the idea of the Yale deadbolt smartlock, where a keyhole is ourside together with a keypad. That makes sense for me. But the Euro cylinder smartlocks all seems to be just an addon with the key inside. I cannot imagine how you can lock a Nuki if it runs out of power and you don’t have fresh batteries at home. Maybe I am missing something in the concept of these devices.

In my setup the lock should be installed/replace an Euro cylinder in a two lock door, with doubled lock option. Top lock has to be locked first (twice) then the bottom one can be locked. It operates like a deadbolt, but it is fitted inside the door’s frame with a Euro cylinder. I am missing in all the solutions the operation from inside when the battery goes dead and a keypad outside. And of course with Z-wave. :wink:
If I would have a security door with a lift up latch, that would be easier to find a working solution for, it looks like.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Tagging @rboy, who is an expert on locks. :sunglasses:

As far as the basic question, for all smart locks which have only interior hardware, no hardware on the outside, then if the lock goes dead, you have to open the door with the original manual key. That will always work.

The locks that have an exterior piece, in particular a pin pad, can normally be powered for long enough to enter one code by touching a 9 V battery to a particular spot on the keypad. not all locks have this feature, but many do. Note that this does not unlock the door, it just powers the pin pad so you can enter your usual pin.

If the lock goes bad altogether, then again, you should still be able to use a manual key on most of them. You just have to check the features of any specific model you are interested in.

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That’s my problem, I cannot find really the right model. I really like the idea of the Yale locks. I just cannot believe that they haven’t made the same for the European market, what is on the US market. Basically this, but for an Euro cylinder. It seems to be trivial for me, but all the Euro cylinder solutions are just a piece fitted inside on the keyhole. Not even providing a keypad outside. Or are the Yale locks have the two pieces separated without any wired connections from inside to outside?

Yale do do a Euro profile lock - in fact several but none that exactly meet your requirements. They do the Conexis L1 but this is only for 3-point locking doors, they do the Entr but this does not support the connectivity you need.

Nuki has a separate numeric keypad available outside, they also do a remote fob and of course you can use their app. Like all similar locks the stand Euro cylinder is left accessible on the outside with its original keyhole. This means you should be able to use the original keys to lock and unlock the lock if the Nuki batteries go flat.

I do however agree with you the desirability that Yale do a Euro profile lock that does offer the same integration options as their Doormaster, Conexis L1 and Keyless Connected Smart Lock.


What would not make sense is for both to have numeric keypads built-in. Here in the UK it is common for doors to have a dead bolt lock and a ‘night latch’. The Yale Keyless Connected lock is for the night latch and their nearest match for the dead bolt i.e. Euro profile is their Entr lock.

Here is something to look in to as I am not 100% sure of the accuracy of this.

For a Euro profile lock you obviously need a Euro cylinder which does inside a mechanism rebated in to the door. An example is like the following.


This particular example only has the bolt mechanism for a Euro cylinder and no handle mechanism. However there are as you are probably aware Euro profile mechanisms with integral door handle mechanisms like the following.

Now I got the impression from something I read on the Nuki website although I could have interpreted it wrong that there are some of these combined mechanisms which link the unlocking of the Euro cylinder to also opening the door handle portion. (Not the reverse that opening the door handle unlocks the Euro cylinder.)

If this would help you would need to double check this and find a suitable combined Euro profile mortice and door handle mechanism.

Personally I still feel the Nuki lock with its optional numeric keypad and the fact you can use a traditional key is sufficient.

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That Yale has some weird quirks. Like you need to mount a magnet in the jamb for it.

I believe that’s to use the DPS feature with supported Yale locks/z-wave modules

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Got my schlage lock installed with the RBoy DTH and Lock user manager. All seems to be working well.

But is it normal to take a long time to lock/unlock from within the ST app? 30-40 seconds seems to be average.

That seems like a long time. Did you try a Z-wave network repair? And do you have a decent Z-wave network? I’ve never had any issues with any of my lock, but a lot of people say they require a repeater nearby unless your hub is close.

FWIW, A lot of my ST stuff has seemed a bit slow today. Not 30-40 seconds slow, but intermittently 8-10 seconds instead of 2-3.

I’ll see if it’s any better today.

My zwave is pretty solid, and I did do a repair. Hub is in the next room, and have a couple zwave switches nearby.

For what it’s worth, my deadbolt usually is slower to respond than other z-wave devices. Definitely not 30+ seconds slow, but I’d say a range of 5-15 seconds from receiving a lock command through the app or Google Voice is typical.

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In most homes, the lock and perhaps a thermostat are the only battery operated devices which receive commands from the hub. There are lots of battery operated sensors which send information to the hub, but I’m talking about the situation where the hub is telling the device to do something.

And battery operated devices are almost always slower to respond than mains powered because they “sleep“ in order to conserve battery life.

For zwave locks, specifically, you can often improve response time by adding a beaming repeater close to the lock.

FAQ: why would I need another beaming repeater if my zwave lock is already close to my hub?

thanks for the explanation!

I assumed it had to do with being battery powered, but it’s never bothered me enough to research it. I rarely use the app or GV to interact with my lock, so it’s an almost irrelevant point (to me).

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My Kwikset usually responds in less than 5 seconds, and that’s just with the ST DTH.

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Interesting. I have 3 switches and dimmers within 20-25 feet of the hub and lock, after much digging they all ZWP and seem to support beaming.

Maybe it’s just the nature of the beast. Even after a few repairs 15-20 seconds is about the average time to respond to commands from the ST app.

JDRoberts,
You mention voice commands. I want to give Alexa permission to lock/unlock/give status but at the same time, I don’t want to take a chance of someone in the summer yelling “Alexa, Unlock front door” thru a cracked window.

All I can think to do here would be only have voice commands work in certain modes, or via webcore only if one of us are home. (Maybe I’m still being overly cautious/paranoid)

You’re not being overly cautious or paranoid, and until last year Alexa didn’t allow unlocking by voice at all for the very security reasons you’ve mentioned. They now do allow unlocking by voice, but it requires specifically enabling this through the Alexa app first, and also requires you to set up a “voice code” which you have to use every time you unlock via voice. Control of locks through Alexa routines is not supported for similar reasons, and any routine that includes a lock device will not run.

As far as the delay, I’m not sure what to tell you. I have a Kwikset 910 using the RBoy DTH and it almost always responds within 1-3 seconds. It’s also ~3 ft from a z-wave plus switch though.

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Alexa will require a pin code for a lock if it knows it’s a lock.

You’re not being overly paranoid

I don’t know how much to trust it or if it would work for you, but you can teach Alexa your voice(s). I think it’s then possible to limit it to only known voices.

I’ve pretty much decided that 20-25 ft is the practical limit for even Z-wave Plus. I have switches about 30ft from each other in a clear line of sight that were flakey until I put a device between them.

Maybe find a spot closer to the lock for a Z-wave outlet?

The beaming repeater for the lock needs to be within “whisper distance“ which is typically 3 m. It’s a security thing.

One of my beaming switches is actually right next to the door with the lock. Then 9 or so feet from that, two more. Then the hub is maybe about 12 ft.

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