Need help with my fireplace

project_fireplace

(Jason "The Enabler" as deemed so by @Smart) #1

Ok, I’ve done a ton of searches and for some reason can’t decipher all of it…

My Goal:
I want to control my fireplace with ST as well as keeping the low voltage wall switch in place for a manual shutoff/control.

What I have:
This is the Name and Model # of my fireplace ~ Hearth & Home Technologies • DV3732SBI, DV3732SBIL

Fireplace wiring:
This is the wiring diagram from the manual ~

What I think I need (I already bought it):
Aeon Labs DSC26103-ZWUS - Z-Wave In-Wall Micro Controller

The BIG Question:
First of all, SAFETY is my #1 concern. I will not use this in any kind of automation. I only want to tell Alexa to turn on/off the fireplace. That is it.

I’m just going to cut to the chase here ~ I’m NOT an electrician. I am not completely familiar (or comfortable) with the way the micro controller works.

Please tell me how I am supposed to wire this. Also, do I need another piece of equipment to make this work right?

I hope it’s clear where I’m at on this. I want to make sure it is done right the first time. It is a gas fireplace and I really do NOT want to blow my self up. Plus, my wife will be super pissed if I burn down the house.

Thanks


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(sidjohn1) #2

are you basically just wanting to power it on/off from the main power run?


(larance) #3

I’m in the process of building a house and I planned on running 120v to the same switch that controls the fireplace. I haven’t looked at your fireplace diagram but basically the wall switch that you see is low voltage (electricity is actually generated from the pilot light). What I plan on doing is installing this: http://www.amazon.com/Remotec-Zwave-Contact-Fixture-Module/dp/B00913ATFI/&tag=smart0f3-20
That way I don’t have to worry about a battery dying. Basically this switch is a relay that has the 120v completely separate from the low voltage. And this should nicely replace your current switch for your fireplace. Your only challenge is getting 120v to that outlet.


(Jason "The Enabler" as deemed so by @Smart) #4

I want to turn the fire place on/off via ST. As well as having the currently installed low voltage toggle switch work.

So, if I tum on the FP with ST, I can turn it off with the current wall switch.

And if it is then turned on via the wall switch I can turn it off using ST.

Think if it kind of like the GE 12722 in wall light switch. I can turn the lights on at the switch, of with ST, and then back on with the switch. It doesn’t get out of sync.

I guess it could be thought of like a 3-way light.

Can I use the mice controller to do this? And if yes, how do I wire it?

The fire place does have the option of writing in a remote control.

Can I just wire this micro controller in to the remote control wiring on the fire place?


(Jason "The Enabler" as deemed so by @Smart) #5

I do not want to replace the currently installed low voltage switch. I want to wire the ST control in, basically in parallel, to that switch so that I have physical control as well.


(larance) #6

I just looked at your diagram and it appears that the bottom of your fireplace should have power going to it. So it should be fairly simple to do. Not sure how handy you are but this should only take about 10 minutes to do. If you are up for the challenge, here is the steps I’d take.

  1. Find the circuit breaker for the fireplace and shut it off.
  2. Open you fireplace access (usually the bottom)
  3. Confirm power is off with a volt tester (fairly cheap)
    Note: the only high voltage you should really be worried about is the power going to the transformer, should be 3 wires; black (hot) white (neutral) and green (ground)
    Fun fact- it takes 6 volts to stop a human heart, that would be placed directly next to the heart. As the body creates a lot of resistance.
    I believe your transformer is only 3 volts. I digress.
  4. Locate the 2 brown wires that go in the direction of the switch on your wall.
  5. Open the switch cover and mounting screws and pull on either end to confirm those are the correct brown wires.
  6. Fish your high voltage wire (you would also need to buy) to the switch from the bottom of the fireplace.
  7. Connect the high voltage at both ends (before the transformer and at the switch I have linked) and connect the brown wires to the switch
  8. Put everything back, turn the power on and cross your fingers lol

(larance) #7

I think you mean series. Also the switch has a physical button on it. I wish I had seen your response before writing the directions lol. What is your main concern with being able to turn it off? You should have 2 gas shutoff under the fireplace which is fairly easy to access. One “mechanical” shutoff before the gas valve, and another electrical one at the gas valve. That reminds me I forgot to mention lighting the pilot in the instruction if that matters :joy::joy:


(Jason "The Enabler" as deemed so by @Smart) #8

Ok, I’m an electronics tech… So that means house worrying is pretty much a language I do not speak. My training is in aviation.

Ok, I’ve already found the low voltage wires. Conveniently everything is labeled beneath the unit. There is a small power strip mounted under there as well. The fan is plugged into fan, the transformer is plugged into transformer, and the aux is empty. I will plug the micro controller into the aux for its zwave power.

I was going to take an external cord end to wire the 120 vac to the micro controller. The small prong is the hot, the large prong is neutral.

Would I take the two wires that go to the remote control wiring and put them on the load side of the microcontroller? Or would I put them on the wall switch side?

I guess I really need to know this. Is the wall switch connection on the microcontroller there so a wall switch can control it? Or, can that terminal be used as an output?

*I do not want to remove the physical switch. I want that inline as a physical safety


(sidjohn1) #9

No, this I’ll not work for you then.when you kill the main power via zwave your low voltage switch will also stop working.


(Jason "The Enabler" as deemed so by @Smart) #10

No problem. The gas valve will not open until the spark starts. And it has a flame checker. So, if the flame goes out, the gas shuts off. There is no constant lit pilot light. Which rules out just plugging the thing into a Leviton appliance module.

I wasn’t the physical shut off for peace of mind. So it has to either be parallel or be able to shut it down. I don’t care which, but if ST goes haywire (cause we all know it’s oh so very stable) I want physical control over a fire in my living room


(Jason "The Enabler" as deemed so by @Smart) #11

I can’t kill power to the fireplace. The switch only runs a low voltage which tells it to turn on.

The gas valve must continue to have power at all times.


(Jason "The Enabler" as deemed so by @Smart) #12

Questions…

  1. What voltage is applied to the load side of the micro controller? I’m assuming 120 vac.
  2. does the wall switch terminal control the microcontroller our does the microcontroller control the voltage to the wall switch?

*** I think I need to power this thing up and pull out the fluke meter***


(Ray) #13

There are two options you can go with. Option 1. You can use a dry contact relay but the switch will be out of sync depending on how you use it. Option 2. Look like you are picking the Aeon for a reason and probably for in sync? You will need one extra component for this. A relay. Here is how it works. Your switch will control the Aeon micro. The Aeon micro will control the relay and the relay will control you low voltage wires.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00EZ2C4LM/ref=pd_aw_sim_sbs_60_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=41xNq%2BYfe3L&dpSrc=sims&preST=AC_UL100_SR100%2C100&refRID=1QJEMVZ16GM365C4BE9B


(Ray) #14

The load is the output voltage supply by the switch. For on/off it will be 110v and for dimmer it will be from 0 to 110. You don’t apply any voltage to it or one of you will get hurt.


(Jason "The Enabler" as deemed so by @Smart) #15

Sounds like option#2 is what I’m looking for.

So I also need a120 vac controlled relay. Ok.

Wiring~~~
The relay would be wired to the load side of the microcontroller.
The load side of the relay would be connected to what the wall switch is now connected to.
The wall switch will then be connected to the wall switch terminals on the microcontroller.

This allows me to turn on the fireplace via ST and turn it off via the wall switch.
Also, it would allow me to turn it back on via ST without having to toggle the wall switch.

I don’t care if the wall switch is up or down. I may replace the toggle with a momentary push button just to calm my ocd.

This connection scenario gives me both remote control and physical control of the fireplace, correct?


(larance) #16

Ok I read through some of your replies. Basically you want a 3 way switch. I attached a photo of the internal wiring of a 3 way switch (not sure if you know what it looks like). This is what you will need to replicate in order for you to have a traditional switch on your wall (you will need to change it to a 3 way switch though). Now I’m not sure if you want it to operate as a 3 way as a luxury or as a safety kill switch on the wall. Another option you have is cut one of the brown wires and wire your relay in using a SERIES circut. That way the fireplace will operate only when both circuits are switched on. I still think my original idea is best because you can turn it on and off using either ST or the wall switch. Plus I think the push button is way cooler :smile:. You can do whatever you want to those brown wires as a backup under your fireplace. Such as having a switch in series to kill everything (which seems pointless since there is already multiple ways to turn it off) or you can install a switch in parallel as a bypass to turn it on if the relay ever fails. At the end of the day you can always take the zwave switch out and revert back to the old switch in just a few minutes.


(larance) #17

All that blabbing and I forgot to attach the pic :sweat_smile:. You probably know anyways but it’s attached this time


(Jason "The Enabler" as deemed so by @Smart) #18

Yeah, it’s really a convenience/safety for the switch to remain.

I think my confusion was with the output on the load and what exactly the switch terminals do.

I think I’m going with the relay version added in. That pretty much gives the essence of a three way switch, without the actual the way.

This way if the fireplace is on and I lose either internet, ST, or echo, I can still use the fireplace via the wall switch.

Thanks for all off the help.


(larance) #19

I’m sorry I read this about 5 times and I don’t understand how this minipulates a 3 way switch. If the switches were in series then when one switch is off then the other is useless. In a parallel circut when one is on the fireplace will be on regardless of the position of the other switch. It’s 3am over here now so maybe I’m just losing it. I just don’t understand your solution. But as long as you think you got it that’s all that matters.


(John Crighton) #20

I have an R/C gas fireplace, and had always considered automating it. One thing to consider is (and I don’t know if safety laws are as strict over there), if both gas and electricity are cut, what stops your home filling with gas when either service resumes? If there is a safeguard in place, it has to remain.

Mine contains a big block of AA batteries which will close the gas valve in this kind of event.