SmartThings is responding to market demand on security systems with the release next week of their new ADT/SmartThings security package. Starting cost is $550 plus a monthly fee if you want the ADT monitoring. It has some of the pieces that are missing from the current SmartThings platform, but again, we don’t know exactly what because they haven’t showed us the app yet. And it has its own hub and its own security sensors which aren’t compatible with the current system. My guess (just a guess) is that in the future SmartThings will point Consumers over to that package if their primary interest is security. But we’ll see.
Well, there is always room for more add-ons, I agree. So you should use your influence and skills to get ST to add the user level permissions (the ones it seems everyone has been screaming for for a long time), they’ll get way more customers.
Assuming that it does allow for user level permissions, the addition of the ST/ADP security system/service at a higher price point just seems like a bait and switch. Like once people realise that in using ST as a hub they are completely vulnerable in terms of security, they’ll add/upgrade to that. Even Apple has learned that forcing your customers to buy more things to do what a product should do does not make them all that kindly disposed of toward you.
Unfortunately, you are going to find pros and cons with each and every one of these cheap DIY products. If one product could deliver everything that every single person wanted, needed, wished for, the product would never ever be completely built/finished or make it out to the consumer to be sold. And if by some miracle they were able to deliver this 100% “perfect product”, then there would be no need for a competing product. Pros and cons for all! Find the one that suits the majority of your needs and go with that. Things within these products will continue to change each and everyday, some for better and others for worse.
I agree but its important that people not be misled. It almost seems that way since ST (and some articles) emphasize the “security” the system provides. How secure can it be with this issue?
Short answer: if you want granular level permissions and the advanced security and peace of mind that goes with it, get Wink
If you want to be able to connect a million devices to it and fine tune your light dimming from 9.3 to 9.25, go with ST. But do so knowing that you could be entertaining guests when you tell your kid you’re not buying them the latest smartphone and they decide to turn off all the lights, turn the thermostat down to zero, change the lock code, turn the music up to decibel shrieking levels and delete you as a user.
I respectfully disagree… You see, it is not my decision to decide what features SmartThings (or Apple) “should” include in their Products.
For one thing, we at ActionTiles do not have any special influence at SmartThings. Gosh, if we did, we’d have them include ActionTiles with every Hub and give us a simple royalty! Done deal, right?
There are thousands upon thousands of Apps for Apple iOS that some substantial number of iPhone and iPad customers think “should be” included with the purchase of the iPhone or iPad. Apple has no reason to include these even in their $1000 phone, because they know 3rd party App developers can do it, have done, and do it affordably and perhaps do and support it even “better” than they could. Now substitute Android … and even, SmartThings, and you get the concept that these products are platforms … not complete products by themselves.
The word Security is such a loosely used word.
For all these DIY hubs, they are all great for home automation in their own ways. Some have easier plug n play functionality and some have over the top customizable flexibility and functionality, but every single one of them falls short of 100% reliability and what people are stating as a station for security.
These cheap DIY hubs should not include the word security with them in fine print or elsewhere. Even dedicated and reliable alarm systems like ADT only mitigate things by bringing people a little peace of mind having devices installed on the outer perimeter and on the walls of their domains with the ability to contact police or fire authorities if one of these perimeters is breached. At least with a dedicated alarm system, there is a reliability factor for the most part but even these aren’t 100%.
In most cases, a sign stuck in the grass of your front yard constitutes about as much security as an alarm system itself in that it will detour most people from wanting to bother with that home. Being able to capture video of a would be thief is great in that it potentially can lead to that person being found, or a smoke alarm going off and alerting fire dept can potentially save the house from burning down if they arrive in time. But if someone wants to get in to do harm to you or family or take your belongings, a security system of any sort is not going to prevent any of that from happening, period.
Short of installing some sort of unpenetratable steel bars on every entry point in a home or a mote around your house with crocodiles, there is no true security system. Owning a gun or hiring 24/7 armed guards on premise is the closest thing to actual security. Bottom line and realistically, if someone wants in, they are getting in no matter what your system consists of, and row level security on a mobile app is a minor inconvenience compared to the bigger picture of what security is supposed to represent. Having mitigating factors and a reliable security system helps in buying time to maybe avert disaster but it only helps bring a little peace of mind with a few devices to warn you of someone on the outside between the wall and you.
These $99 systems should never be used for reliability when it comes to security, lol or automation. Automating your home to do cool things with lights and things is fun, but that’s automation by itself, not security.
For the Wink itself, if the outlet that you have the plug plugged into goes out (breaker flips), it doesn’t have a battery. I think that’s kind of silly that this wasn’t thought out before the Wink 2 was brought to market. I’m not defending ST. I’m just saying that every single one of these plastic squares have their own downsides, flaws, issues and limitations, and again it all comes down to the value and the needs that are closer met for each individual and their setup as to which path they go down and which product or products they purchase, from hub, to sensors to cameras, to the security company, yada yada yada.
There is no such thing as security on this planet, only the ability to mitigate with some bells and whistles to buy a little time to circumvent potential disaster. And if you have an ex that you believe capable of any wrongdoing because he can’t be trusted (restraining orders don’t do much), SmartThings, Wink, Abode, Apple, Nest and the other 1000s of products available, aren’t going to resolve/prevent this in anyway no matter what can or cannot be accessed via an application on a mobile device.
I’d just like to point out that while members of this community can be very vocal, it helps to keep in mind that we do represent only a segment of the ST user base. And one that is very much on the power-user end of the spectrum, with priorities that may or may not align with the majority of ST users.
What’s to be will be. I just feel better knowing that I have at least, some measures in place to 1st, deter it from happening and 2nd go back and actually examine what happened by looking at the logs and video.
ST really does need to add user levels. It really doesn’t make any sense to have the all or none approach when dealing with Home Automation AND Security. I say security because although not the best, it still is security if you have it set up as such.
From a pricing standpoint:
Wink 2 Hub = $99 (Amazon)
SmartThings v2 Hub = $79.99 (Amazon)
- ActionTiles = $23.99 for a total of $103.98.
A difference of less than $5.00
From a convenience standpoint:
-
Setting up panels for
All Devices
All Routines -
Setting up restricted Panels with specific devices for secondary users for visibility
-
Additional Pin Code security for accessibility to those devices, routines, shm, etc.
-
Ability to run continuous on wall tablet with auto wake up to view everything at a glance.
There are a ton more pros I can list here, but based on one through four above, I rarely if ever have a need to go into the actual ST Mobile application, unless I am adding a new device or a smart app. As you can see from my friendly debate with Terry, I have no direct ties to ActionTiles, but agree that it is a solid product and can be used almost completely replacing the need for using the ST Mobile App.
In any case, it looks like you are going to give Wink a try. Hope it all works out for you. Let us know the results whether good or bad.
I super appreciate your advocacy, @WB70. Thank-you!
I need to solicit more love for our Facebook Reviews page, because that also reflects how much Customers value what ActionTiles brings to their homes.
Being anti-2nd amendment probably put you off of my consideration list.
Really? We were back to all agreeing that ActionTiles was a great addition to ST, which it is.
Why try to restart an unnecessary fight?
No.
If I want politics, I will go on Twitter or Facebook. I just want to learn more about what others are doing with the product…not get lectured on buying guns.
That’s fair.
I’ll delete my off-topic posts.
I got locked out from replying because the system has a maximum number of posts for new users the first day. and my reply has changed substantially after reading the replies, esp. the ones now deleted.
It shows some true colours (and a lot of sexism) for the one poster to imply that because I’m a woman maybe I won’t feel secure unless I get a gun. REALLY? Maybe one of the reasons I’m pursuing security through other methods is that I don’t want to resort to that.
As far as Terry’s constant shilling of his product, here’s what I have to say. Action Tiles is great if you’re OK with accepting yet another layer of work and administration to get what some other hubs deliver off the shelf. For those above that use it and like it, wonderful. I was stating a fact that some of us don’t want to resort to using other methods on top of the hub. I work in DC as a Middle Eastern policy analyst. I hardly need more work. I like simple. Using two interfaces instead of one isn’t simple. No matter how you try to spin it. (Maybe I should have also added that anytime you add a web-based application on top of a mobile app and wifi based system you’re adding another opportunity for hacking).
Also, in the past I worked for venture capitalists, hedge funds, etc. If Action Tiles has a partnership with SmartThings than they have a voice. So Terry saying he can’t influence them at all, or at least make suggestions that would be heard more readily than customers is just bunk. In truth Action Tiles exists because of this deficit of the ST hub. While its true as he stated that the possibilities to create additional utilities for ST are kind of unlimited let;s face it, this is the main function of Action Tiles for a lot of people. You can read the forums and figure that out.
And I don’t buy that ST doesn’t position itself as a security measure. The dashboard has a “Home Solutions” section with a “Home Monitor” that purports to act as a security monitor. How on earth could anyone argue that they don’t claim to be a security feature? I don’t buy that. But then I graduated from college when I was 15, so maybe that accounts for my fuller understanding of that… In truth ST tries to demonstrate that even under the current system (not the ADP one coming) they offer security protection. But they don’t. As long as the customer is forced to choose between restricting access and using it in a pseudo secure manner or giving access and being wide open, the customer is not getting the product they were promised, they are getting a compromised one.
I have a pretty far reach in DC where I often get invited to events geared toward internet security (including for the Department of Defense) and I’ve been telling people, you want peace of mind, don’t get a Smart Things hub.
It’s even worse than that. The marketing implies one thing. The product terms of use say something entirely different:
https://www.smartthings.com/guidelines
Data accuracy and consistency from SmartThings sensors, including those provided by SmartThings directly, resold by SmartThings, or supported by SmartThings, is not guaranteed. Therefore, you should not rely on that data for any use that impacts health, safety, security, property or financial interests.
ADT’s fine print is quite different on their systems. They do say the system isn’t perfect, but in most cases for their professionally installed systems they also offer to pay up to $500 toward your insurance deductible if you do have a loss while the system is armed.
BTW, I wouldn’t consider the existence of the new ADT/smartthings system an example of bait and switch provided the company’s marketing is changed so that consumers with a prepurchase interest primarily in security are directed towards the ADT product from the beginning of their research. I agree absolutely that if they keep the current marketing, someone buys the $99 hub, complains to support, and is then told that they should instead buythe ADT product, that would be inappropriate.
There’ve been a lot of new offerings in this space recently. Abode has been out for about a year and seems to be pretty solid, although it has a limit on the total number of IOT rules and devices which doesn’t match my own needs.
Nest and ring both just announced new packages.
In the community discussion about the nest offering, I listed some of the things that I consider a minimum for a purpose built security system. The new ADT/SmartThings package looks like it will also meet most of these points (still don’t know about the camera), so a lot of new players in the space.
What I didn’t mention in that post, although I have elsewhere, are the issues you brought up about secondary users. I agree those are absolutely critical, and so far we don’t know how any of the systems will handle them. One of the problems that people have run into in the past with the current SmartThings system is that once you give someone access to the account, if you remove them again they will still have access until the time that they log out and try to log back in again. We actually had a community member with an abusive former roommate who had this problem. 
So I’m hoping that will also be changed with the ADT offering. But we will just have to wait and see.
I should also add that so far I don’t know how any of the systems I mentioned handle secondary users. Some of them seem to assume that the secondary user just means a spouse, someone in the same family that you trust completely. But obviously there are issues that could come up with Teens, housemates, Airbnb guests, or even the ex-girlfriends of housemates (an issue we’ve had at my own house 
), plus the usual dog walker example.
So the more I think about this the more that becomes a whole separate checklist of required features. It’s not that everyone would want all the features, but they should be available as options on a security system in 2017. 
Sorry for so many posts at once, but I did want to say that although I definitely like your post, in Terry’s defense based on what we’ve seen in the forum over the past few years, strategic decisions about SmartThings are not in any way influenced by either the power users or the developer partners at the level of actiontiles. The people driving the decisions are either over at Samsung or mega-corporate partners like Nvidia and ADT. Just look at the history of the V1 To V2 migration tool, which was publicly promised by the SmartThings company CEO but never delivered because of “higher priorities” ( presumably set by Samsung).
We have been told multiple times by different staff members that a typical SmartThings customer has 15 or fewer devices and uses no custom code. Those folks would have zero overlap with the ActionTiles user base.
So while I think they are glad to see that ActionTiles is available for the power users who want it, it wouldn’t surprise me at all to hear that development decisions are being driven by a completely different group than the ones that Terry works with.
FWIW
Also for what it’s worth, I think it’s pretty unfair to Terry to refer to him as a shill for ActionTiles.
Mainly because the term “shill” implies an undisclosed relationship with a commercial product or service, and deliberate deception on the part of the person that is seemingly so enthusiastic about it.
I’ve found Terry’s presence on this forum (which predates my own) to be generally helpful and educational to others that ask questions or have problems in need of solving. The fact that he also has a (publicly disclosed) financial interest in ActionTiles doesn’t negate the other ways that he participates in this community.
Since the OP has made it clear that SmartThings doesn’t meet her needs, and is just as clear that ActionTiles isn’t something she’s interested in, maybe this topic can just be closed? It’s just degenerating into personal attacks.
I don’t know if @slagle still moderates posts on the forum much anymore. Maybe @Brad_ST?
Edit: additionally, I don’t see where @WB70 ever suggested that his recommendation re: the use of guns as a home security measure was based on the fact that the OP is a woman. And yes, I’m referring to all the posts that are now deleted (since it’s still possible to see them for up to 24 hours). In fact, at one point, he said literally the opposite (“My statement wasnt made specific to a gender”).
Hey Laura,
I apologize if you took the context of my post about getting a gun to be even remotely connected to you being a female. My recommendation had absolutely zero with you being female. This was something personal to me and when I saw you mention something about the ex, it made me think of my own situation. Whether it makes a difference to you or not, I will share my story (the short version). I was in a very long term relationship and when that relationship had ended, I received a lot of threatening like phone calls, emails, messages from my ex girlfriend and male friends of hers. There were physical actions during the relationship that gave me cause for concern that created a lot of fear and anxiety that led me to a purchase that made me feel more safe and secure in my home. With domestic violence and the capabilities of people and extremes, you mentioning that the “ex” couldn’t be trusted reminded me of my own personal experience and my recommendation depending on how bad the situation might be. It had absolutely 0 to do with you being female. Your name could have said Bob and I would have replied exactly the same way. Well knowing that every friggen thing gets taken out of context here, I would refrain from posting about a gun. Which I deleted and all subsequent texts related to the off topic conversation as Terry did. I’m anything but sexist. This had nothing to do with gender and my comment insinuated no such thing other than your name happens to be female.